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To: Tublecane

“Yes! That was their plan. They wrote it down! It’s called the Schlieffen Plan.”

Yes, I studied the Schlieffen Plan. The Plan was to be used in the case that a two front war was inevitable. The German plan in an offensive war in the West was the same as in 1870, to run straight through Sedan and to Paris.

They did not want a two front war. They knew going in that war against the Entente was suicide. The reason for the swing through Belgium, is because they wanted to draw the French forces in Lorraine deep into Germany and swing around Paris.

In a war against France alone, they would have just massed everyone at the border and punched through again, using surprise. Which is what they did in 1870. They already had the playbook for victory against France. They needed one for France and Russia.

When Russia invaded East Prussia, the war was on. Germany did not invade Russia. Germany did not invade Belgium until after Russia invaded East Prussia.

Things were so bad in East Prussia that Moltke replaced the East Prussian commander with replaced by Lundendorff and Hindenburg, because he wanted to withdraw all German forces behind the Oder river, and abandon all of East Prussia.

Lundendorff was elevated and he recalled Hindenburg to the eastern front. They realized that the attacks of the Russian 1st and 2nd armies, under Rennenkampf and Samsonov were not co-ordinated. Then they realized that their communications were unshielded. So not only were they not listening to one another, they were broadcasting their movements to the Germans.

Lundendorff managed to slip in armies behind the Russians, and encircle the second Army at the First battle of Masurian Lakes. Than 4 months later, he was able to do the same to Rennenkampf, who hadn’t even bothered to advance from Gumbinnen to Koenigsberg.


31 posted on 02/04/2011 10:07:10 AM PST by BenKenobi (one of the worst mistakes anybody can make is to bet against Americans.")
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To: BenKenobi

“They did not want a two front war”

No, who would? Unfortunately, you can’t conquer Europe without dealing with both the east and the west.

“They needed one for France and Russia.”

Why? Because one or the other might attack them, and eventually the other when their back was turned? Possibly, originally. ut that’s not how it turned out, considering Germany moved first. And even if it was the case that they planned offensive operations just in case at some point in the future it became The World Against Poor Germany, we generally don’t condone such practices. The Soviet Union had reason to believe it might be invaded again, but that did not justify them building an Evil Empire in Eastern Europe, Asia, and elsewhere in the meantime.

“When Russia invaded East Prussia, the war was on.”

Ugh. Please, please, please consult a timeline.


42 posted on 02/04/2011 11:09:10 AM PST by Tublecane
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