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To: Windflier

>Your government should not have the power to compel your participation in any behavior, whether it’s one you agree with, or not.

Then what is the basis of penal systems? Or would you argue that your conduct is not forced upon you therein?
Or, perhaps more “on topic” what is the basis for the draft, or conscription, or declaring that some group *is* the militia?

>If you agree with a law compelling gun ownership, then you believe in something other than a representative, constitutional republic, with unalienable rights guaranteed to the sovereign citizens, and only limited powers granted to a central government.

Ah, but is there a “right to be unarmed”? Certainly there is a right to keep and bear arms, which may or may not be exercised at will.
If the government can require one to be in the militia, and my government State does (I’ll show the State Constitution section later), then can’t it also require that one possess the proper equipment? Furthermore, the protection of the People from invasion/attack is one of the complaints in the Declaration of Independence (the DOI can be likened to a Work Order, whereas the Constitution would be the Statement of Work).

ARTICLE XVIII — Militia

Sec. 1. [Composition, name and commander in chief of militia.]
The militia of this state shall consist of all
able-bodied male citizens between the ages of
eighteen and forty-five, except such as are exempt
by laws of the United States or of this state. The
organized militia shall be called the “national
guard of New Mexico,” of which the governor shall
be the commander in chief.

Sec. 2. [Organization, discipline and equipment of militia.]
The legislature shall provide for the organization,
discipline and equipment of the militia, which
shall conform as nearly as practicable to the
organization, discipline and equipment of the
regular army of the United States, and shall provide
for the maintenance thereof.

Clearly, “all able-bodied male citizens between the ages of eighteen and forty-five” is quite spanning; and notice that there is no mechanism for excepting oneself unless one wants to a) enact a law excepting someone based on, say, religion; b) violate a state law to so exempt yourself; or c) violate a federal law as to exempt yourself. {Given that b & c are likely in practice “commit felonies” I wouldn’t recommend them.}

But, upon examination of my State’s Constitution you will find some interesting sections like:
Art II — Sec. 2. [Popular sovereignty.]
All political power is vested in and derived
from the people: all government of
right originates with the people, is founded
upon their will and is instituted solely for
their good.

Art II — Sec. 3. [Right of self-government.]
The people of the state have the sole and
exclusive right to govern themselves as a
free, sovereign and independent state.

These two articles together mean that The People are what gives a political entity its power, but further that this group has the ability/right “to govern themselves as a free, sovereign and independent state.” If this is the case then, as a whole, if the people wish to require every able-bodied male of 18 to 45 to be in the militia then, as a principal of sovereignty, it is so. Furthermore, if the People wish to require every head-of-household to have a firearm, and there is an instance of this at the county-level in my State, then that too is their right.

The way in which one changes this should, rightly, be via Constitutional Amendment; something like “No Citizen shall be required by any law to buy, obtain, or possess any good or service.” There are Sections which do exactly that limiting of the validity of laws:

ART II
Sec. 6. [Right to bear arms.]
No law shall abridge the right of the citizen
to keep and bear arms for security and
defense, for lawful hunting and recreational
use and for other lawful purposes, but nothing
herein shall be held to permit the carrying
of concealed weapons. No municipality
or county shall regulate, in any way, an incident
of the right to keep and bear arms.

Sec. 11. [Freedom of religion.]
Every man shall be free to worship God
according to the dictates of his own conscience,
and no person shall ever be molested
or denied any civil or political right
or privilege on account of his religious opinion
or mode of religious worship. No person
shall be required to attend any place of worship
or support any religious sect or denomination;
nor shall any preference be given by
law to any religious denomination or mode
of worship.

Sec. 17. [Freedom of speech and press; libel.]
Every person may freely speak, write and
publish his sentiments on all subjects, being
responsible for the abuse of that right;
and no law shall be passed to restrain or
abridge the liberty of speech or of the press.
In all criminal prosecutions for libels, the
truth may be given in evidence to the jury;
and if it shall appear to the jury that the matter
charged as libelous is true and was published
with good motives and for justifiable ends, the
party shall be acquitted.

Sec. 19. [Retroactive laws; bills of
attainder; impairment of contracts.]
No ex post facto law, bill of attainder
nor law impairing the obligation of contracts
shall be enacted by the legislature.

ALL of these sections specifically prohibit some sort of law.


87 posted on 02/01/2011 8:49:52 PM PST by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: OneWingedShark
Then what is the basis of penal systems? Or would you argue that your conduct is not forced upon you therein?

A civilized society has to make some provision for those who would trample the rights of others by committing barbarous acts against them, hence penal systems.

A man who violates the life, liberty, property, or the pursuit of happiness of others, has forfeited his right to be treated as a free and responsible citizen.

As to the balance of your reply, you seem to still be trying to make a case for the right of government to force the citizens into activities and behaviors which they may not choose for themselves.

Because our government has done this in the past, doesn't make it right.

America was founded upon certain foundational principles of individual freedom and liberty. Of these, the principle of the supremacy of the citizen and the individual states over the federal government, is fundamental.

This is the point I am making, and the one you seem to be failing to come to terms with.

88 posted on 02/01/2011 9:20:15 PM PST by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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