Thank you for your elucidations. I admit I have been reading about this topic obsessively since summer 2008 and I learn something so often that I keep obsessively reading...
I learned from your comment as well. But are you sure that the original pre-adoption birth certificate can never, ever be seen? How about subpoena or similar court order? Couldn’t that make it see the light of day? And would the amended due to adoption BC have the original place of birth?
I’m reasonably certain the fiend was born in Kenya. I also think the dam is breaking. And the speed will accelerate. They’re afraid, I agree. I like it that they are afraid, makes me happy.
I wonder if he is still an Indonesian, I sort of think so.
Thanks for your reply - I was afraid it would be a dead thread by now, or at least that everyone would have gone to bed.
You’re right that the pre-adoption birth certificate can be seen, but the restrictions are mighty. Only the subject child can see it, and only after petitioning the court, having a hearing, and convincing the judge that it’s absolutely essential. My understanding is that NO third party can file such a petition, which means the sealed documents are subpoena-proof. The certificate is only a part of the order of sealing: any and all related documents, papers, transcripts, orders - all of it is under seal. The purpose is to protect the child’s privacy - perhaps a vestige from the awful days when adoption was looked upon as something shameful. That sins-of-the-mother-visited-on-the-child mentality.
Barry’s type of adoption is no different than any other adoption in procedure and result, no matter the child’s age. The natural father must appear before and convince the judge that he’s willingly relinquishing all rights to the child because he believes doing so is in the child’s best interests. The adoptive father must also appear, separately, and convince the judge his desire to be the child’s father is sincere, loving, and in its’ best interests.
The sealing is to prevent anyone being able to have knowledge or info which could be used to upset the child in any conceivable way. It could also be considered a blackmail preventative, regarding the parents. The sealing is why it is next to impossible for adopted and now adult individuals to find out anything about, let alone locate, their “birth-mother”. SHE also has a sacrosanct right to privacy.
The other thing about the “new” birth certificate is that it is not considered an “amendment”. In the law, that birth certificate which we would reflexively think of as the “original” - is gone. What being sealed means relative to that document is that it simply does not exist - and never did. There simply is no birth certificate but the one showing Lolo Soetoro as the father.
The original place of birth is unchanged. EVERYTHING is unchanged but the father’s name and race. It makes no difference where on the face of the earth Lolo was when Barry was conceived, or even whether Stanley Ann Dunham knew of Lolo’s existance - in the eyes of the law, she and Lolo conceived that child. Amazing, eh?
Another effect of Barry’s adoption by Lolo is that his last name would be Soetoro and could/can not be changed except by him - after reaching age 18 [or 21], and only by petitioning the courts of wherever he resides. He could have gone back to “Barack Obama” merely by using that name - you know, an “also known as” thingy. But to legally be known as Barack Obama would require a court petition/order. If he did that, there IS a public record of the proceding. Unless Soros intervened.
I’ve not a settled opinion yet on his birth place. There are many indicators for Kenya; less, but some for Hawaii -and common sense relative to the times and mores leaves open the possibility of Washington or Vancouver. There were also some glossed-over, but clearly important connections in Chicago during that time frame.
I also wonder whether he yet holds Indonesian citizenship. Don’t know how likely keeping it quiet would be - though who knows what name it might be under - perhaps that name that showed up on the mother’s passport amendment request form. Actually, that’s probably the most likely name.
And, yes - it’s very entertaining to watch him and his circling the drain.
I really like your tag line - CS Lewis has long been a most-admired in my little corner of the world.