Diesel era ends for MTA buses (natural gas buses more expensive to buy and maintain)

Los Angeles Times ^ | 1/12/11 | Dan Weikel

[NormsRevenge]

After almost two decades of effort to reduce vehicle emissions, the Los Angeles County Metropolitan Transportation Authority will retire its last diesel bus Wednesday and become the only major transit agency in the nation with a fleet that is totally equipped with alternative-fuel technologies.

In an urban area where diesel buses began operating in 1940, the MTA now has 2,221 buses powered by compressed natural gas, as well as one electric bus and six gasoline-electric hybrids.

Transit officials estimate that the elimination of diesel engines has reduced the release of cancer-causing particulates from the bus fleet by 80% and greenhouse gases by about 300,000 pounds a day in one of the smoggiest areas of the country.

MTA officials say that compressed natural gas buses cost more to buy and maintain than those powered by diesel but that the increased expenses are offset over the long run by lower fuel costs.

...

[Errant]

natural gas buses more expensive to buy and maintain

I'm for converting some of our fleet to NG in preparation for a day when diesel may become unavailable for numerous reasons.

[IamConservative]

One could also put CNG intake air fumigation on a diesel and reduce emissions 66% (and continue driving if you run out of CNG.)

[thackney]

but that the increased expenses are offset over the long run by lower fuel costs.

Sounds like a good reason to do it now. I believe Natural Gas is going to be even lower in the future compared to diesel.

[RowdyFFC]

We have an old 1950’s GMC truck on the farm that’s been running on natural gas since the 1960’s...I used to drive it all the time. It’s a much cleaner burning gas, so I don’t know why they think they’re more expensive to maintain.

[Errant]

I think you’re probably right. Even if you’re not, ensuring the delivery of goods and services in the event of a shortage or unavailability of diesel justifies an added expense. We’re only a few days away from empty grocery store shelve if the trucks stop rolling.

[Red Badger]

Rest In Peace, old friend, your work is finished.....

If you want ON or OFF the DIESEL ”KnOcK” LIST just FReepmail me.....

This is a fairly HIGH VOLUME ping list on some days.....

[pallis]

It will take an ice age to deprogram airheads from global-warming propaganda. Leftists have selling stupid down to a science.

[MichaelP]

I would have thought that NG vehicles would be LESS expensive to maintain. Perhaps leaks are problematic?

Mike

[calico_thompson]

I agree. You don’t get all the diesel combustion contaminates in the oil, and there are practically no carbon deposits in the heads.

[Yo-Yo]

Transit officials estimate that the elimination of diesel engines has reduced the release of cancer-causing particulates from the bus fleet by 80%

Is that according to the now discredited CARB study of the effects of Diesel on human health?

What about this CARB study that says clean Diesel procudes fewere emmissions than CNG?

[Yo-Yo]

Maybe I've been sniffing Diesel fumes. Let's try again:

What about this CARB study that says clean Diesel produces fewer emmissions than CNG?

[PSYCHO-FREEP]

The whole reason for running diesel engines in the first place is POWER. The torq delivered in a diesel cannot be duplicated by a gas engine. Which spells towing capability. It is not horsepower that gets that 60,000 pound load to the top of the mountain, it is Torq that does that. And diesel engines are the only means to produce that kind of torq in an extremely efficient form.

Diesels deliver over 3 times the torq of a gas engine; Especially NG engines. That is because of the combustible nature of paraffin based fuel. (Cetane ratings)

This whole hype will prove to be a great error.

[Balding_Eagle]

I'm for converting some of our fleet to NG in preparation for a day when diesel may become unavailable for numerous reasons.

With the earth awash in oil, that may take several thousand years.

[thackney]

Mercedes-Benz delivers first natural gas Econic semi
http://green.autoblog.com/2010/01/01/mercedes-benz-delivers-first-natural-gas-econic-semi/

[NonValueAdded]

This situation is unique given the natural smog issues in the LA Basin and the unique geography that causes the problem. This is the right move for them but that doesn’t necessarily mean it is the right move anywhere else.

[Razzz42]

Europeans have proven diesel technology but you have to pay such a large premium to get a diesel vehicle from overseas in the States, that it is cost prohibitive, like there something evil about the latest diesel technology (only that it would be competitive).

In the meantime, diesel driven trucks and tractors supply the US with whatever they need and make the world go round.

Nothing wrong with natural gas either (except it’s competitive).

[Vinnie]

I don’t know why they think they’re more expensive to maintain.

My thought also. Cleaner burning, use much less oil.

[Errant]

Fossil Fuel Emission Levels - Pounds per Billion Btu of Energy Input

Pollutant	Natural Gas	Oil	Coal
Carbon Dioxide	117,000	164,000	208,000
Carbon Monoxide	40	33	208
Nitrogen Oxides	92	448	457
Sulfur Dioxide	1	1,122	2,591
Particulates	7	84	2,744
Mercury	0.000	0.007	0.016

[Errant]

Energy content of fuels role.

Fuel	BTU/Gal
Gasoline	125,000
Diesel	138,700
CNG	90,800

Engine efficiency plays a major role.