Put yourselves in their shoes and “raise the alarm”
Go ahead. Do some real honest research about what it takes for a parent to get a mentally ill teenager - much less and adult child over 18- hospitalized or even outpatient treated without their cooperation, without them actually having harmed anyone or threatening to harm themselves.
Go ahead. Figure out how to FORCE a teenager or young adult who does not think he is sick, to take psych meds.
Walk in those shoes.
Then come back and tell us about how the entire psychiatric system, healthcare, justice, social work and legal systems are stacked against you. And tell me how social you want to be with the neighbors while for 10 years, you live in a hopeless hell on earth while your only child disappears leaving a crazed shell of a human in his place.
I understand your points. However, if the parents knew (based on his statements or behavior) that their son was a risk to himself or others but did not call the police to have him pink slipped for a couple of days (regardless of whether he was a minor or adult) or go to a Probate judge and challenge his competency, then they share a burden for his behavior. Granted, there are a lot of assumptions in my statement at this point. I will be interested to learn if they ever made any effort to have him counseled for mental health issues as a youth or adult, pink slipped, etc.
Your post leaves me humbled to the point of squinting eyes, prayers for you Silverleaf, something’s real and perhaps experienced behind that post, something that would drive the rest of us to our knees and rightfully so...
I totally agree with silverleaf. You all have no idea what you are talking about and are just hotheads.
Spot on post, silverleaf.
You said it much better than I did a few posts after yours.
Yes.
Sounds like perhaps you’ve had personal experience, like I have, with someone close who desperately needs help and will not seek it voluntarily.
I hope that those making ignorant and uncharitable statements about these people never have to walk in their shoes.
A good parent does not wait until then. It starts with birth when you give the child a hug and a smile of encouragement at the proper moment. You take the matches away from the toddler. You don't let the preschooler get away with telling lies because it is cute at that age. You keep your word instead of giving in just to "make peace." You do thousands of caring, controlling, contrite, coaxing, considerate, caucus, commanding, cheerful, compassionate, or conscientious things to properly guide a child so that as a teenager, force or even mistrust is the furthest thing from a good parent's mind. This isn't rocket science, it is the same job every parent has had for many millennia. A good parent leaves the Earth a better place. The bad ones are easy to spot.
There was a disturbed teen in my family. He had drawings and plans to hurt someone close to him. After many tries the family got him into the local psych unit. They kept him for ONE WEEK after starting him on heavy meds and then tried to guilt the family into bringing him home.Due to concerns for our own safety, we could not do that and he landed on the streets. We begged, called our local Dept of Mental Health, lawyers and everything and got no where. He is still on the streets and, thank God has not hurt anyone or himself.
After this nightmare, I swore I would never ask where the family was again! The system beats you down and does nothing for the patient. It’s liberal overcorrection for the abuses of the past.
They could have sought intervention while he was still in High School. When he almost died from alcohol poisoning in a classroom, they could have sought help from the counselors and medical doctors.
There has been numerous warning signs with this individual and I think the Sheriff was fully aware of him too. He attended two diversion programs after as many arrests.
Plus, there are numerous private programs that would have gladly taken him in....funded by private donations or the United Way.
They knew and the Sheriff knew this person was ill and needed serious intervention. Sounds like neither of these parties did the right thing for Jared or the victims.
Your tag line says it all.....
Go ahead. Do some real honest research about what it takes for a parent to get a mentally ill teenager - much less and adult child over 18- hospitalized or even outpatient treated without their cooperation, without them actually having harmed anyone or threatening to harm themselves. Go ahead. Figure out how to FORCE a teenager or young adult who does not think he is sick, to take psych meds.
Walk in those shoes.
Then come back and tell us about how the entire psychiatric system, healthcare, justice, social work and legal systems are stacked against you. And tell me how social you want to be with the neighbors while for 10 years, you live in a hopeless hell on earth while your only child disappears leaving a crazed shell of a human in his place.
Couldn't have said it better myself, I know someone going through this and it's been horrendous.
In Arizona you can petition to have them on psych hold for either 48 or 72 hours. A lawyer I worked for did that to a son of an “incapacitated person” (probate) that was ticked off at the lawyer. He had him forcibly committed for two days.
And, this problem will become worse as more kids with mental handicaps isolate themselves from others through video games and other personal electronic devices. This isolation takes these kids away from the social interaction that is necessary to find out who they are and how they relate to other human beings.
The Twittering and such electronic interaction is a false means of social interaction. It causes a blindness to other human beings and should never be used as a substitute for real human interaction. Like I said above, we are moving into an electronic age which exasperated social development in our kids. It camouflages people from revealing who they really are and how they relate to other human beings. It also encourages people to detach themselves from others and such isolation is against the social nature of the human being. This does not look good for those suffering from a mental illness. Their detachment also hides their problem from those around them. And if their problem is not corrected, can cause big problems.
I could go on about this, but I would like to see others give their thoughts on the matter.
We had another client that was an adult in probate who refused to take his medicine. He was a schizophrenic. He had a mom, she was his “guardian” and provided the funds. All the State of Arizona could do was pick him up when they could find him and forcibly give him his meds. The guy was driving without a license but was also a risk to himself. He gave away his money, brought bums back to his apartment. At some point all you can do is what you can and pray.
Thank you.
It is nearly impossible to get treatment for a mentally ill teen/adult. They have legal rights which keeps the parent in the dark about their illness and treatment.
Our godson has schizophrenia and has attempted suicide 3 times in the last 2 years. He hears voices and thinks trolls are spying on him. He has covered his bedroom window with cardboard so they can’t see in. He is on medication, but doesn’t like the side effects so quits taking it. He is placed on other meds and does the same thing. He is a danger to himself as shown by the suicide attempts and a danger to others as he has threatened his sister’s boyfriend with a baseball bat. He seldom leaves the house, spending most of his time on the computer playing games.
His mother is in denial and insists he has a “few quirks”. She talks about his mental illness but like a person who is in a daze, unable to accept her perfect baby has grown up to have such a serious flaw, not understanding his illness or what causes it. His father is dead. Much would be resolved for her in terms of acceptance if the dr would sit down with her explain the illness and answer her questions, which they can not do due to privacy laws.
I have spoken to adult services where they live but they say the police or ER drs have to make the request for involuntary commitment after they determine he is a danger to himself or others. They have to see it themselves not hear abut it after the fact. Even if they witnessed his behavior at most they will probably only hold him 72 hours, get him back on meds then turn him back out. It is a nightmare and I fully expect to receive a call that he has either finally killed himself or done something even worse.
As I said it is a nightmare.
Thank you.
In my limited experience, even the best, most engaged families and friends have their hands tied and there’s nothing they can do until their loved one breaks a law. Even then, you may not even see the person hospitalized, but instead court ordered to take medicine that the individual doesn’t want or even think they need to take because they they think they have a clarity that no others have and they feel damn GOOD running around batshit crazy.
Silverleaf, you clearly know better than most of us how difficult (or even impossible) it is to get treatment for someone who doesn’t want treatment. (And I am very sorry for whatever you have gone through.) There was a situation here a couple of years ago — parents were trying to take their 16 yo son in for a psychiatric evaluation. He freaked out and grabbed his younger brother, threatening to hurt him, barricading himself in the family car. Police were called, and although the kid let the younger brother go, he was uncooperative with the police and they finally shot him to death. In the car. His only weapon was a tiny blunt pocket knife.
While I agree that it really was this shooter’s parents’ duty to do what they could to prevent a tragedy like this, perhaps they were afraid of him ... or afraid of something happening like what I described ... or incapacitated by their own issues. (Sounds like they have their own set.)
In any case, it sounds to me like this incident happened as a result of mental illness, not because of any political discourse. The MSM and all the people who have pointed fingers at the TEA Party should be ashamed of themselves.
Post of the Year, silverleaf.
The Tucson victims faced the devil on earth in his utter indifference, his absolute zero inhumanity. This is perfectly matched by the attitude of a mental health professional responding to the pleas of a parent with a disturbed young adult.
They don’t care. They don’t help. If you beg and say, “But without intervention, he will die!” they say, “Then let him die.”
I have heard it with my own ears.
Now six people are dead, many maimed, heartbroken, lives forever damaged — that’s what it took to get an obviously demented adult committed.
It isn’t the gun laws that should be adjusted, it’s the high hurdles for involuntary commitment.