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To: SunTzuWu
As an armchair Admiral (and former active duty officer), I am confused on this ship's mission. If it's cheap and disposable, what is it supposed to do that a Zodiac can't do? If it's supposed to be a combat ship, what prevents us from giving it the survivability of a real ship. My reading of this (I have enough of a NAVSEA background to think that I know what I'm talking about) is that Obama doesn't particularly care about dead sailors, so he won't pay to make this ship a proper warship. If you know better, then I'm all ears.

They're both supposed to fight in the littoral, and apparently neither is survivable in combat operations. For that $500M price tag, will the LCS crew at least be provided with a rubber patch kit and a scoop for bailing?

Even John Paul Jones, when he said, "I wish to have no connection with any ship that does not sail fast; for I intend to go in harm's way," was thinking of ships that could stand and fight, as well as run to carry the fight to the enemy, not just a ship that could run away but that couldn't take a hit.

8 posted on 01/09/2011 8:33:41 AM PST by Pollster1 (Natural born citizen of the USA, with the birth certificate to prove it)
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To: Pollster1

This is not exactly Obama’s fault. Both LCS versions are derived from commercial designs which have been criticised as having lower safety standards than usual naval vessels.

Modifying it into a ‘proper’ warship could likely jack up its costs. Or you can cancel the project or redesign it.


10 posted on 01/09/2011 8:45:14 AM PST by sukhoi-30mki
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To: Pollster1

We will spill our children’s blood because we sent them into harm’s way without proper equipment (and probably proper leadership). May the Lord have mercy on us.


11 posted on 01/09/2011 8:48:41 AM PST by Citizen Tom Paine (An old sailor sends)
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To: Pollster1

Well, I do not have a NAVSEA background, but I do have an AT SEA background. Eight+ years of Sea Time on combatants, all in Combat Systems which included a stint as Aft GLO and 25mm Chaingunner. The littoral environment is, as you surely know, vastly different than where the fleet operates. Any vessel that operates in the littoral environment needs to be light, fast and maneuverable. The trade off to that is protection. Yes, you can add composites that will be more shock resistant, but it all comes at a cost ($’s). Cheaper armor is heavier, which negates the qualities needed in shallow water. Having operated with large fleet vessels and in the littoral environment with Navy EOD, I believe there is a need for a littoral combat vessel. Is this the best vessel for that? I don’t know, but to say that a Zodiac can do the same job cheaper is, I believe, a disservice to the conversation.
Do you have experience operating in the littoral environment and with the threats presented in that environment? Do you posit that there is no need for such a vessel?


13 posted on 01/09/2011 8:51:51 AM PST by ExpatGator (I hate Illinois Nazis!)
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To: Pollster1
I find nothing in your post to disagree with.
15 posted on 01/09/2011 8:58:32 AM PST by SunTzuWu (Political correctness does not legislate tolerance; it only organizes hatred. - Barzun)
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To: Pollster1
My reading of this (I have enough of a NAVSEA background to think that I know what I'm talking about) is that Obama doesn't particularly care about dead sailors, so he won't pay to make this ship a proper warship

LCS's problems have nothing to do with Obama.

The villian is former CNO Vern Clark, who basically designed the ship in one evening with no analysis; hence the worthless, silly top speed, etc.

21 posted on 01/09/2011 10:09:59 AM PST by Strategerist
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