Posted on 01/09/2011 5:40:41 AM PST by reaganaut1
...
To judge from data that law schools collect, and which is published in the closely parsed U.S. News and World Report annual rankings, the prospects of young doctors of jurisprudence are downright rosy.
In reality, and based on every other source of information, Mr. Wallerstein and a generation of J.D.’s face the grimmest job market in decades. Since 2008, some 15,000 attorney and legal-staff jobs at large firms have vanished, according to a Northwestern Law study. Associates have been laid off, partners nudged out the door and recruitment programs have been scaled back or eliminated.
And with corporations scrutinizing their legal expenses as never before, more entry-level legal work is now outsourced to contract temporary employees, both in the United States and in countries like India. It’s common to hear lawyers fret about the sort of tectonic shift that crushed the domestic steel industry decades ago.
But improbably enough, law schools have concluded that life for newly minted grads is getting sweeter, at least by one crucial measure. In 1997, when U.S. News first published a statistic called “graduates known to be employed nine months after graduation,” law schools reported an average employment rate of 84 percent. In the most recent U.S. News rankings, 93 percent of grads were working — nearly a 10-point jump.
...
Apparently, there is no shortage of 22-year-olds who think that law school is the perfect place to wait out a lousy economy and the gasoline that fuels this system — federally backed student loans — is still widely available. But the legal market has always been obsessed with academic credentials, and today, few students except those with strong grade-point averages at top national and regional schools can expect a come-hither from a deep-pocketed firm.
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
And Hillary shut down medical schools, so I guess you could count that.
But when you consider that a teaching program costs hundreds of millions of dollars to get started, and dozens of millions to run each year, it is the laws of scarcity that dictate, not some guild behind the scenes plotting to keep the #s of personnel low for their own devious ends.
Case in pt--we are starting to import physicians, many from Islam. (shudder) If it was cheap to educate doctors, don't you think schools would have emerged? Instead, we take advantage of overseas medical schools to train many of our new docs.
My son graduated from law school 3 years ago, was accepted as a Navy JAG and spent most last year in Afghanistan putting bad guys away in Afghan jails that would otherwise have been part of the “catch and release” program. Not all lawyers are bad.
If you think we have too many lawyers, you must think legal services are under priced. Or does the free market not apply, or is this just a blind spot for Conservatives?
Law school is a winning game ONLY if you are in the top 10% of your class or go to an Ivy League school.
One should not have to go to law school or be licensed by the bar to be a lawyer. It is corruption that created this barrier of entry.
At the risk of inviting flames, I am a partner at a major national law firm. Depending on one’s perspective, lawyers cause numerous societal “problems.” It is easy to forget that we play a significant role in oiling the gears of the corporate economy since we help incorporate new businesses; assist companies in raising money; structure various mergers and acquisitions; help companies go public; acquire and protect the intellectual property of our clients; assist our clients in navigating the maze of federal and state regulations, etc.
Like the economy in general, the legal profession is highly cyclical. It boomed in the late 90’s with the dot-com bubble, collapsed after that bubble burst, was doing well in the mid 2000’s, and has been hit hard by the burst of the housing bubble.
Basically, in boom times a sizable fraction of law school graduates from decent law schools will be able to find good jobs. That fraction shrinks appreciably during the busts. Even so, someone graduating in the top 20% of their class from one of the top 25 schools should be able to land a job at a mid-size to large law firm. Law firms can’t just stop hiring new associates for very long. Law firms use a pyramidal economic model and simply must have new lawyers constantly joining the ranks. As with everything else in life there are still good jobs available for those who are smart and work hard.
As an attorney who is self employed and finally starting to get to the point of being able to pay off my debts, I believe the real solution to the problem talked about in this article (and it is a very real problem) is to cut off all federal student loans for law schools.
A couple of shady lawyers in an acquired Chicago office brought down the whole firm.
In most cities there is a Christian Lawyers association that does much good.
In every city there are sleazy types who only think of their next million dollar case and their mistress.
At this point, there are too many John Edwards and not enough good guys.
"Would you like fries with that?"
(It doesn't say what kind of work...)
For what it’s worth, my firm has seen a significant uptick in corporate and securities work that began in early October and has been consistently strong since then. Hopefully, a positive sign about the macro economy.
I don't think it's that simple. You have to pass the bar exams to represent clients in court. Not sure to what extent you can otherwise represent yourself as a lawyer.
Zap,
There are non-Bar law programs/degrees so someone must be taking them. Do you know of such people? Do they find work in legal research or some such?
You can’t give any legal advice as a lawyer unless you pass the bag exam.
Sorry, bag=bar.
Sorry, bag=bar.
Some are bag men, some are buttons. ;-)
I think you are referring to the fact that in some states, notably California, you need not graduate from an ABA accredited law school to practice law. But you must still pass the bar exam to practice.
Glad to hear so, and -snarky comments aside- let’s hope it is in fact a positive sign for the macro economy.
I don't care how many lawyers there are if there is a free-market in education and a free-market in the legal field. You should neither need a law degree nor a bar license to be able to practice law even when representing others.
I am aware of that. I know they even have distance learning law schools. And that California has a Baby-Bar exam for such students.
I meant law programs/degrees that do not follow ABA diktat and so do not allow for the taking of the Bar Exam. I know only what I've read of this and what I've read is that people graduating with such degrees might work in the background doing research or other scut work. And that may be entirely wrong but I don't know.
That is what needs to be changed. There is no need to make going to a court a tedious process. Anyone should be able to represent anyone else as long as they have an agreement and the filing process should be simple: you should have a form to state your complaint, a page where they ask for facts and evidence with ability to attach additional pages and that should be it.
Precedents should be the judge's job and should be optional for the person filing the complaint.
Why should filing complaint in a court not be similar to filing a complaint at the DoJ's office?
In reality, judges are corrupt and when people go to courts expecting justice, the judges come up with frivolous technicalities to not take up the case on its merit. Many times, these are appealable but the plaintiff gives up because of the amount of money already lost.
Lawyers for their part ARE BAD for the most part. When a plaintiff files a case, the plaintiff learns the process and is the one who is usually the most well versed in facts, law and the precedents.
The whole system is set up to benefit lawyers and to some extent the judges.
I’m not familiar with the programs to which you refer. Perhaps these are simply standard paralegal programs? For those who don’t know, paralegals are the master sergeants of the legal profession and principally handle case logistics (e.g., filing, working with vendors, arranging depositions, supporting attorneys at trial, and perhaps basic form preparation and legal research under attorney supervision). Paralegals are not permitted to file their own papers or argue in court.
FYI - in California, those who graduate from non-ABA accredited law schools must take and pass the same bar exam as ABA-accredited graduates. The Board of Legal Examiners only administers one type of bar exam.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.