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To: StonyBurk; MichaelCorleone; MHGinTN
You have taken a physical sign and added an assumption without verification. If any argument is based upon false premise then the argument itself is false. (Professor Dan Showalter Mesa College @1980) Unless you can show what they were praying for as they committed suicide— your argument is false.

The professor is right.

Note, however, that I contradicted that argument anyway, so I didn't need to be rigorous in that step. It was largely rhetorical, emphasizing the fact that

Perhaps your suicides were praying for forgiveness-rather than as you suppose strength?

You are exactly, 100% right. My friend Victoria was doing that, according to the note she left me. She found no success in fighting the temptation to end her life, despite fervent extended prayer. Still, she prayed as she died, for forgiveness of her sins.

It wasn't a short-term thing. She bought a .357 Magnum as a last resort, but didn't want to leave a mess. She kept it by her at all times in case someone found out about her plans and called the cops to stop her. She extracted nicotine from a mess (literally) of cigarettes, but decided against it. She tried to obtain secobarbital from an overseas pharmacy, but Customs or the DEA or somebody stopped it. She then settled for another, more painful method.

Considering the year+ she held off, this was not some sort of knee-jerk, irrational action.

But let's go back to some points...

They were the extreme and irrational response of an individual in time of extreme stress.

Irrational?

Suicide relieves the situation quite effectively. Anytime I start to get upset at Victoria's success, I remind myself that she achieved what she wanted--she no longer has to endure the pain of living an existence she didn't want. She chose rationally, and it's hardly extreme. Even psych professionals admit that medications and therapy can't help a large portion of patients.

To me, it seems the irrational part is to ask for forgiveness after acknowledging that the promise of I Corinthians 10:13 has not been fulfilled.

90 posted on 12/24/2010 9:57:29 PM PST by Gondring (Paul Revere would have been flamed as a naysayer troll and told to go back to Boston.)
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To: Gondring
It sounds to me that you are “blaming” God for the fact that you friend committed suicide. We all go through life having to make decisions and this was her decision. God has not made us to be robots. The verse that you state says...

1 Corinthians 10:13-14 No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it. Therefore, my dear friends, flee from idolatry.

The temptation to take ones own life is common to man as is shown by the number of suicides committed. The verse does not say that God will remove the temptation but that you will be able to “stand up under it” and that He will “provide a way out”. You are assuming that she took the “way out” and still could not stand up under it. I would suggest that she chose not to take the way out and that is why she fell to the temptation. I am speaking with some degree of experience in this area. My brother committed suicide several years ago and from the information he left he knew that he had a better way to deal with his issues but decided that suicide would just be easier. He chose not to take the “way out”.

We all have to decide how we are going to live our lives. God has given us His Word to help us make the right decisions but He does not force us to chose the right decision.

I feel bad for your loss of your friend...and pray that you will find some answers to your questions.

91 posted on 12/25/2010 12:52:59 AM PST by WorldviewDad (following God instead of culture)
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