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To: HamiltonJay; Nachum
Back when I was trying to figure out how fast the skiers in Cross Country are going when they go downhill I found they could do 65 MPH easy, and maybe more depending on the height of the hill.

A WOLF (same's as a dog but smarter) could do 35 MPH on average, which was equal to the cross country skier on average.

You can figure out quickly why the Sa'ami and Alpine hunters had an advantage over the wolves ~ it was the 65 MPH part. Wolves, and dogs, usually can't run that fast, but they are STILL much faster than a man on foot.

So the dog was 25 feet from the porch when it was shot. At 35 mph how much time would it take the dog to reach the officer?

I think we need more information to address the equation directly, but it is a solvable problem.

Which takes me to my point ~ dogs are usually not stupid. They think, plan ahead, consider, and figure out how to attack.

So, here's a dog and he's been thinking, planning, and imagining attacking and all at once he's loose and there's a guy on the sidewalk ~ all that pent up thinking bursts loose and he's off in a flash moving SEVERAL TIMES FASTER than a cop at a walking pace.

We can go to a table of standard values that tell us how many seconds it takes to sight a target and pull a standard service revolver.

BTW, guys, the dog already knows that if he's going as fast as he can he can get outside that electric fence with ease. His owner probably doesn't know that but the 6 kids might have one or two who do know. We could ask them about how the dog leaves the yard.

Fur Shur, that dog's going to be hauling as fast as he can if he's attempting to penetrate the fence and get to the man on the sidewalk. It's possible that at 35 miles per hour the dog can get to the man faster than he can pull his gun and aim. But if the man is farther away, and he's already got his gun in his hand, the odds are against the dog making to his target before getting shot.

We can measure these things and figure out most of it if somebody can get the address. Google.com has all the info.

367 posted on 12/20/2010 2:36:44 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
Which takes me to my point ~ dogs are usually not stupid. They think, plan ahead, consider, and figure out how to attack.

The dog would also remember the searing jolt form the shock collar around it's neck. It'd bark, it'd run up, but it'd also stop well short of the barrier signal tripping that box on it's collar.

I know this because I have a similar unit for my dog. I was worried about how humane it was so I tried it on myself first. Held it with the contacts touching the palm of my hand and tried to walk through the barrier zone.

I don't care how mean and nasty a dog is. It's enough that they won't want to repeat the experience.

370 posted on 12/20/2010 2:41:34 PM PST by Dead Corpse (III%. The last line in the sand)
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To: muawiyah
I think a more basic analysis hinges on somebody in the neighborhood who calls the police at the sight of somebody selling meat from the back of a truck.

A neighbor who has that much free time to stick into other peoples' business would have probably called the cops a thousand times before if there truly was a nuisance dog in the neighborhood.

373 posted on 12/20/2010 2:43:05 PM PST by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: muawiyah

“At 35 mph how much time would it take the dog to reach the officer?”

Just to clarify, only dogs in the sight hound family [i.e. Greyhounds, Salukis, Ibizans] are able to attain that speed and over.

My Ibizans *easily* out run my Doberman even when he’s going “full tilt” which *might* be 20 mph, on a good day.

Regarding wolves:

“They can run at speeds of 36 to 38 miles per hour for _short bursts_ while chasing prey.”

Goldens are not known for their running prowess.


404 posted on 12/20/2010 3:16:39 PM PST by Salamander (Can't sleep....the clowns will eat me.)
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To: muawiyah
dogs are usually not stupid. They think, plan ahead, consider,

Outsmarting the Clavin types at every turn as well.

430 posted on 12/20/2010 4:11:13 PM PST by Eaker (“In the middle of difficulty lies opportunity.” Albert Einstein)
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To: muawiyah

Sorry,

Bunch of silliness... A dog comes at you, you back away.. 35 feet away is not IMMENENT threat when you are a human holding a gun.. This officer obviously had time to “order” a dog to stop.. which is amusing on its face.

I am not saying the officer had malicious intent, he most likely didn’t, but he clearly over reacted.. if a dog comes off its porch and you are in the street and the street is 60 feet from the porch, you back away the minute you see the dog coming... My dog which is a BIG golden can cover 60ish feet in a few seconds running full tilt and barking, and this is plenty of time for me or anyone else to react before he reaches them.... Obviously the guy had time to react, he not only ordered the dog to stop but also shot and killed it.. while it was still in its yard.

Now, lets take your hypothesis one step further.. using 35MPH for a dog running full out, which I think is a bit high, given trained greyhounds go about 45 MPH.. I think a golden moving at 35 is probably overestimating.. but we’ll stick with it... Now a human can sprint at 15-20 MPH for short distances, and the fastes ever sprint recorded by a many was about 27 MPH. So, that’s a 10-15 mph differencial... which means backing away, instead of shooting equals about 20 MPH.. which is MORE than enough time to assess a situation when talking about this sort of distance.. it wasn’t a hair trigger moment with only fractions of a second to react.

Again, I don’t think the officer had malace, just the officer either wasn’t familiar with dogs, overreacted or both.

Like I said, I’ve been bit by dogs, I’ve dealt with dogs charging and lunging at me in full trot... I’m know exactly how scary it can be... I also know that Goldens as gentle as they are by nature can certainly look imposing and can do damage like any dog should they choose to do so. With all that being said though, I think this cop did not handle the situation well..

With a gun, you can take out a dog at the last second... they don’t have the capacity to launch projectile weapons at you. I have never ever heard of an incident where a dog beat an armed human.. shooting it when its 25 feet or more away in its own yard barking at you.. is just not something I think can be justified, given no prior history with the dog. Had the dog already mauled a person and was now heading at you, that would change the situation.. but a dog running off of its porch barking at a stranger.. yet is still in its yard... hard to say the cop reacted properly here in my mind.


520 posted on 12/21/2010 9:59:44 AM PST by HamiltonJay
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