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To: Smokeyblue

I remember during Basic Training, Ft. Ord, spring 1969. I was ordered to deploy to KP duty at the Mess Hall.

Hypothetical example:

Said myself to me: I think I will challenge the validity of the Drill Sargeant’s order, for me to serve KP for 18 long hours.

I thought: How about if I refuse to pull KP, until shown the entire chain of command, from President, all the way down to my Drill Sargeant?

My Drill Sargeant was also a Native American. At points in US history they have been deemed to be not citizens of the US, or at least as I remember from history classes.

I would contend the non-citizen Drill Sargeant can’t issue a lawful order to me.

Plus, that is what my trainee buddy said, and he had taken business law, and hoped this scheme would work for me, so he might try it.

Anyway it didn’t work out well for me. My Drill Sargeant didn’t take to kindly to my demand to see proof that his order was lawful.

Neither did the Company CO, on up to the base commander.

I see little or no difference between every order issued by an E5 to an E3, and this case.

And I don’t think the military or civilian courts do, or will, either.

Lakin is a volunteer for all this trouble, not a victim, just I would have been for refusing KP duty..

My example is straight forward, and does not require counting pixels, or listening to a real estate broker-dentist-lawyer insult court officers with name calling.

During WWII there were citizen-soldiers in the US military who felt FDR was a scoundrel. Maybe that he had purposely allowed Pearl Harbor, for instance. Said soldier could have contended FDR had failed the Constitution. Certainly whenever conscription takes place, a few might asert as strong a case as they can dream up, to not deploy.

During Vietnam, many conscripts and even volunteers tried a variety of ploys, to oppose the war, and take themselves out of it.

I considered it, but served instead. And wound up in AG (G1, Adjutant General), where I saw the cases of claimed “COs” both enlisted and officer.

IOW I witnessed a lot of “draft dodgers” who did so from their “conscience,” which might impress some people.


286 posted on 12/14/2010 2:34:15 PM PST by truth_seeker
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To: truth_seeker

How about if you obeyed the KP duty order but put in a request for a year or so in different places all over the military to find out whether or not the CINC could give lawful orders - because you recognized that your brothers in arms are carrying out much more significant orders and could be guilty of war crimes if not properly authorized?

This isn’t KP duty we’re talking about. And this isn’t a glib WTH kind of a ploy. He gave the military a year to get their answers - to questions that should have been even more deeply disturbing to the head of the command chain than to Lakin himself, if they had cared about their oath to protect and defend the Constitution and had given two moments’ thought about the well-being of the hundreds of thousands of men and women depending on them for protection.

We can talk evidence, and there is plenty of that too. But at the heart of the matter is that the entire chain of command blew off the US Constitution and the well-being of those under their charge for a year. And now they’re punishing Lakin for caring and for exposing their utter apathy.


625 posted on 12/15/2010 6:19:37 AM PST by butterdezillion
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To: truth_seeker

How about if you obeyed the KP duty order but put in a request for a year or so in different places all over the military to find out whether or not the CINC could give lawful orders - because you recognized that your brothers in arms are carrying out much more significant orders and could be guilty of war crimes if not properly authorized?

This isn’t KP duty we’re talking about. And this isn’t a glib WTH kind of a ploy. He gave the military a year to get their answers - to questions that should have been even more deeply disturbing to the head of the command chain than to Lakin himself, if they had cared about their oath to protect and defend the Constitution and had given two moments’ thought about the well-being of the hundreds of thousands of men and women depending on them for protection.

We can talk evidence, and there is plenty of that too. But at the heart of the matter is that the entire chain of command blew off the US Constitution and the well-being of those under their charge for a year. And now they’re punishing Lakin for caring and for exposing their utter apathy.


626 posted on 12/15/2010 6:20:33 AM PST by butterdezillion
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