Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

To: TheBigIf

I see one of your problems now.

Are we citizens of the United States or are we citizens of the individual States and Commonwealths that make up the United States?


154 posted on 12/03/2010 11:52:11 AM PST by paladin1_dcs
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 152 | View Replies ]


To: paladin1_dcs

No my problem isn’t with semantics so much as with the tyrannical idea that you can deprive someone of their United States citizenship merely by gaining a simple majority in a state based upon your argument. That is a distortion of natural law and what the Founders fought for.

And on another note, if you believe that secession is a right then what kind of a right is it to you? Is it only a group right (you need a mere majority at one point and time) or do you believe that is an individual right and that anyone can declare themselves and their land to no longer be under United States law? Please clarify your views on this.


159 posted on 12/03/2010 11:58:01 AM PST by TheBigIf
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 154 | View Replies ]

To: paladin1_dcs; TheBigIf
Are we citizens of the United States or are we citizens of the individual States and Commonwealths that make up the United States?

A very important point of consideration.

Prior to the Civil War, it was usual to refer to "these" United States. There was a clear implication that there were many states and that they were (in effect) on the same team.
Since the Civil War, we use the term "the" United States, implying that there is a single political entity and we all participate in it.
There is a very important distinction there.

Prior to, and during, the ACW many people were very clear that they cared only about their state. They were citizes of, let's say, Virginia. They fought for Virginia. If Virginia had an agreement to be in a union with NY, fine. If Virginia did not have an agreement to be in a union with NY (and MA, and CT, and ...) then that was OK too. The key fact was that the citizen was a citizen of Virginia.

The modern sensibility that we are all expected to grow up with is that the United States is the only thing that really matters and we are all citizens of the USA. It is vital to realize that this is an idea imposed on us all AFTER the Civil War and BECAUSE of the Civil War.

Such an ideology cannot be used to counteract the thinking of people prior to the Civil War on why they should be free to leave the union of the several states. They simply didn't think the way we think now.

162 posted on 12/03/2010 12:02:05 PM PST by ClearCase_guy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 154 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson