Posted on 12/01/2010 8:25:32 AM PST by markomalley
Indeed, not all people understand the concepts of rational belief or or ultimate standards.
I understand you, though, stuart. You don’t want to face up to the fact that your “preferences” are not acceptable to God. No, it’s not acceptable because you “were made that way”. It’s understandable that you would prefer to reject the biblical, divinely revealed standard, because it points out something you don’t want to (not can’t) change.
God has revealed His nature and His “limitations” in His Word. It’s not any sort of “leap of faith” to read and understand what has been revealed.
You DON’T WANT TO believe. It, the divine revelation, points out that your lifestyle is unacceptable.
1 Cor 6:9-10
9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
Once again you show that because you believe something, that is the way it is. If you did understand me, then you wouldn’t honestly be able to say the things you do, because I don’t reject the bible, I just don’t believe some of what’s in it and I ask questions you don’t like.
How arrogant of someone to use capital letters to tell another individual, what they want or do not want.
And therefor you are apply your baseless reason as a higher standard than the revealed Word of God. It's like measuring a ruler with a stick and saying the ruler is wrong.
I ask questions you don’t like
It's not that I don't "like" your questions. They are actually easily answered. It's you that don't like the answers.
ad hominems will not allow you to escape the truth
No. You haven’t been able to grasp that while you believe the bible to be the Revealed Word of God, I don’t. It’s more like you not being able to accept that all others do not believe as you do, and that there may be things you don’t know about God.
No you don’t answer, you merely tell people they are wrong if it’s not the way you believe it is.
I guess you really can’t read or comprehend what others say.
Bye for now, gotta get ready to see the Lion King.
You keep pointing back to me for some reason.
It’s not my own understanding that I’m basing my assertions on. It’s the Word of God. Not my opinion, not my belief, but the actual Words written therein.
You may reject it, but you have no rational basis on which to do so, because in so rejecting it, you reject the basis for rationality itself.
Also in rejecting it, you are putting yourself as the ultimate standard of truth in the universe. Do you really believe that you are?
Indeed, I make no claim to know everything about God, though you accuse me of saying that I do. I do believe what He has revealed, but it’s not true because I believe it, I believe it because it is true. The Ultimate Standard.
I answer based on that Ultimate Standard. You reject the answers based on no standard but your own “reason”, which the ultimate standard says is inherently flawed.
Again with the ad hominems. You know, don't you, that that doesn't "win" any philosophical argument?
No, it is you, not the book. I don’t believe in the book the same way you do, so you say I’m wrong. You do not say that we differ or that are beliefs are the same. That is you, not the bible.
Can you not understand any of this?
What is there to win here? I’m not telling people they are wrong, am I? None of any of this can be proved or dis-proved. That is the nature of faith. You cannot prove the bible is the word of God just by saying God said it was, because you cannot prove that God actually said it...unless you believe the bible. It is a circle, just like all of these conversations are.
Even I know my children will disobey me and rebel at some point. That doesn't preclude me from loving them, making promises to them or bearing their burdens for them.
I understand it perfectly, having had training in this very discussion.
You base your beliefs on nothing but your own understanding, which is, well, based on nothing.
I base my beliefs not on myself or my understanding, but on the Ultimate Standard of the revealed Word of God, which has proven itself to be divinely inspired. It cannot be “measured” against anything else, because in so doing, you elevate that something else to be a higher standard.
Again, do you believe your understanding to be the Ultimate Standard of truth? If not, what is?
The closest one can come to this being true theologically speaking is to say that the ultimate original sin was the lack of dependence on God and an attempt to be independent of God's will and God's covering.
Yes
It is interesting to me that God did not drive out the woman from the garden, just the man:
So the LORD God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side[e] of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.
Did Jesus sin when he fed the 5000, did the 5000 sin by eating? Did God sin when he provided Manna to the Hebrews, did the Hebrews sin by eating it?
That’s the nature of an “ultimate” standard. There is nothing to prove it by but itself, which it indeed does through the fulfilment of specific prophecy. It is not a circular argument. It is an endpoint.
You have faith in those things which are unclear.
You use the ultimate standard to determine and discern those which are clear, and often repeatedly so.
Why have you had training on this very discussion?
You base your beliefs on what you believe to be the Ultimate Standard, as do I. We just have different standards, and you cannot grasp that notion. Fine with me, but you certainly don’t find me going around telling people they’re wrong. If people believe other than I do, I can accept that. Can you?
How has it proven itself to be divinely inspired, you have proof?
My understanding is my Ultimate Standard. Yours, is yours. I believe God quite capable of instilling into each of us, His Ultimate Standard for that individual. That is what makes us unique. That, I believe, is our soul.
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