Posted on 11/30/2010 10:10:05 PM PST by ErnstStavroBlofeld
China is replacing the engines in its J-10 fighter, installing the Chinese made WS-10A in place of Russian made AL-31F. The Chinese consider the WS-10A a superior engine to the AL-31F, even though the WS-10A copied a lot of the Russian technology. As delivered from Russia, the AL-31 is good for 900 hours of operation. Chinese engineers figured out how to tweak the design of the engine so that it lasted for 1,500 hours. This feat is part of a growing trend. At first, decades ago, China simply figured out how to build Russian weapons they had bought. But in the last decade, they have increasingly improved on those designs. China believes it will be free from dependence on Russia for military jet engines within the next five years. For years, China imported two Russian engines, the $3.5 million AL-31, and the $2.5 million RD-93 (a version of the MiG-29's RD-33) for the JF-17 (a F-16 type aircraft developed in cooperation with Pakistan.) But in the meantime, Chinese engineers have managed to master the manufacturing techniques needed to make a Chinese copy of the Russian AL31F engine. This Chinese copy, the WS10A, is part of a program that has also developed the WS-13, to replace the RD-93 as well. While the Chinese have been able to build engines that are durable, they are still having problems with reliability.
(Excerpt) Read more at strategypage.com ...
Maybe I should have learned Chinese for my foreign language requirement... then I would at least be able to understand our new lords and masters.
;)
It’s not over yet. I wandered to the actual Pravda the other day, and there was an opinion article talking about the last days of the USA.
Towards the end, the author said something I did not expect: They said the USA has a secret weapon.
Prayer.
The author was right.
Christ said ANYTHING in my name, so long as we forgive, walking in the spirit, abiding in His words.
Anything
The majority of Russians are Christians unlike our current rulers.
“durable, they are still having problems with reliability.”
Durable but unreliable? Huh??
Ouch, just ouch.
;)
Does the WS-10A come with a guarantee?
That’s strategypage for you. High on sensationalism, totally devoid of common sense and accuracy.
They’ve plunged lower depths than this.
Never seen a Chinese copy superior to an original.
And it is just about lower end stuff let alone aircraft engines.
Totally agree with you on this! StrategyPage does have some good stories now and then, but even THEN it is mostly a military-esque analogue of Phonics. As in, very basic, very simplistic, and without too much attention to accuracy or fact-checking. It is nice for a quick McDonald's Meal type bite, but it lags even below WikiPedia in terms of veracity. It is basically physics for Third Graders - gives a rough and simple overview, but with some fundamental mistakes here and there.
For instance - the WS-10a is a joke. There are several reasons why it is, and some day (maybe in the next 5 years) the Chinese will make a perfect replacement for the Russian AL-Fs they are forced to use, but currently (and for the past number of years) that engine has been a nightmare. While there are some FReepers who claim that Chinese military technology is (and I quote) 'light years better' than Russian military technology, the sad fact is that in areas like engines and RADAR the Chinese are not even where the Russians were in the mid-1980s (e.g. the Zaslon S-800 'Flash Dance' PESA RADAR). Currently the Russians are working on supercruising engines, while the Chinese have not even mastered 90s engine technology.
As compared to the US ...not even close.
Now, the Chinese are developing fast, and in the last 20 years (particularly ten years) they have made tremendous strides (e.g. in terms of materiel, strategy, etc ...for instance their naval game is totally different from what it used to be, with even a foray into AEGIS-esque phased array RADAR anti-air destroyers ....although looking AEGIS-esque doesn't mean they are AEGIS competitive). China has made huge advances and they have the money to continue that ....but that doesn't mean they are light years ahead of Russia, Western Europe or anywhere near the US.
As for StrategyPage ...not a bad website, but NOT to be used as a reference material for ANYTHING. It is basically a BLOG with the articles being opinions of the authors, and those opinions are mostly right (but mostly right means partially wrong).
Linking to StrategyPage is tantamount to JonhsHopkins Hospital linking to a blog that has the 'medical opinions' of a Papua New Guinean witchdoctor! Sure, they are interesting, and in some areas can be accurat-ish, but using it as a baseline would be foolish (at best). A drinking game could be invented where one takes a shot for every error in SP ....guaranteed inebriation if you read all the articles! Potential brain damage if you move forwards and read the forum posts.
Not a 'bad-bad' site (and when they lower the opinions a bit can actually be good) ...but best shelved under 'other viewpoint' rather than 'source.' It is a blog that is organized to appear as 'news' when it is not. Using it as a source is silly. Even the Indian LiveFist military blog is lightyears better than StrategyPage.
Should have copied you in my post above since you started the thread. Only fair. (No attack on you as a person, but there are better websites to be used as sources rather than StrategyPage, which is a blog not a news site).
As for LiveFist, there definitely seem to be a bit less expert commenters there, and hard to know who they are when they're under the Anon tag.
The quality of commentators is related to the commentary posted there. They often appear to make no effort on checking facts while writing on stuff outside of the US.
They called the Chinese K-8 basic trainer a ‘light bomber’ a few months. Even a Chicom jingoist would be horrified to hear that!!
In the latest article on their engines, the author claims that the J-10 performed poorly in air-to-air combat. Where did that information come from since the J-10 has not seen any combat and there is little to no information on any simulations conducted by the Chinese.
Livefist is a blog run by an Indian journalist called Shiv Aroor who writes for the India Today group. It’s a bit on the sensational side with the usual eccentricities associated with journalists but it’s not made the kind of bloopers that SP is being associated with.
Yeah, some of these things can be embarrassing. FWIW, per my earlier comment, I found the range of commenters on LF to be quite wide...some of them firmly believe the US planes are crap up to and including the F-22. Funny how we can outspend the the next top 10 combined in military spending but have a crap air force with overrated, crap planes with crap pilots. Heh...but that’s neither here nor there.
I'm going to run over to Walmart and buy a couple. I'll let you know.
I think you are referring to posters who may be any Tom, Dick or Hariprasad who are found on Livefist rather than supposedly informed commentators. The posters, who are found on Livefist have little or no knowledge of mil-affairs and are of the Indian jingoist variety, cannot be compared with the folks who write articles on sites such as SP.
There’s only one commentator on Livefist and he does very little commentary -it’s more into reporting.
http://livefist.blogspot.com/p/about-shiv-aroor.html
As China develops, she will be able to place more of her resources toward R&D for her military and away from building her country for everyday necessity. Surpassing Russia in the near future is not an unrealistic possibility. And in the longer term, even catching up with the US is possible too.
Military research, is not unlike any other research, placing publicly known science towards an end product. Except the process is shrouded in mystery for military hardwre. One only has to look at how secretive the Manhattan project was. Yet the theory and possibility of harnessing energy from at atomic level was publicly known since the 1890's.
Chinese economy is just a slightly more diverse. It depends on consumer goods exports which is about the same as Russian commodities (plastics are made out of oil) + more added value (via low quality slave labor).
Both are depending on a Free Worlders who fill their tanks with Russian gas or buying Chicom stuff at Walmart.
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