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First Chinese Carrier Nearly Complete
The Strategy Page ^ | 11/24/2010 | The Strategy Page

Posted on 11/27/2010 9:00:58 PM PST by ErnstStavroBlofeld

Work is picking up on what appears to be China's first aircraft carrier, the Shi Lang. For eight years now, China has been tinkering with a half finished Russian aircraft carrier. Two years ago, this ex-Russian aircraft carrier, Varyag, was renamed the Shi Lang (after the Chinese general who took possession of Taiwan in 1681, the first time China ever paid any attention to the island) and given the pennant number 83. Until last year, progress was slow. But there has been a lot of work lately. Early in 2009, China moved the Shi Lang into dry dock, where work is now obviously underway to install engines and other heavy equipment. A year ago, the radar mast was completed, and now there is a Chinese radar system being installed. Officially, the Chinese say nothing. But the dockyard workers keep at it, and it's possible to take photos from a distance. It appears that the Shi Lang is a year or so from going to sea.

(Excerpt) Read more at strategypage.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: aircraftcarrier; china; chinesenavy; navair; navalaviation; pla; plan; shilang; varyag
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To: ErnstStavroBlofeld

I’d love to watch their first aircraft launch and recovery.


21 posted on 11/27/2010 9:57:14 PM PST by DWar ("The ultimate destination of Political Correctness is totalitarianism.")
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To: DWar

Me too. A You Tube moment


22 posted on 11/27/2010 9:59:01 PM PST by ErnstStavroBlofeld
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To: ErnstStavroBlofeld
The weird bad boy in question:


23 posted on 11/27/2010 10:04:57 PM PST by FormerACLUmember (Character is defined by how we treat those who society says have no value.)
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To: mylife

A radial engine motorcycle is a crazy idea. Extremely cool but crazy.


24 posted on 11/27/2010 10:06:32 PM PST by magslinger ('This is a United States Marine Corps FA-18 fighter. Send 'em up, I'll wait!')
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To: magslinger

Of course!

Its gonna handle like ****


25 posted on 11/27/2010 10:08:58 PM PST by mylife (Opinions ~ $1 Half Baked ~ 50c)
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To: ErnstStavroBlofeld

good for target practice

it had better not get anywhere the USN in a shooting war


26 posted on 11/27/2010 10:37:17 PM PST by Enchante (What if the Olberdork returned to the air - and no one notices.... or cares?)
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To: mylife; magslinger

Thar’She`Blows!,,,;0),,,

I really think it would have made a better gamblin’ boat

than a carrier...


27 posted on 11/27/2010 10:43:31 PM PST by 1COUNTER-MORTER-68 (THROWING ANOTHER BULLET-RIDDLED TV IN THE PILE OUT BACK~~~~~)
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To: ErnstStavroBlofeld
Here we go again...

Every time one of these threads shows up, the usual snarking comments show up as well...

Its a FrankenCarrier...Shi Lang = Target...Shi Lang = POS...It doesnt even have steam catapults for crying out loud!...Bronze Star waiting to happen..." Yada, yada, etc., etc...

Personally, I think the Shi Lang and her follow-on sisters is going to be damn effective. Much more effective at what they are being designed for than anyone on FR (with the possible exception of Jeffhead himself) is willing to believe. Much more effective and combat capable than the Admiral Kutnezsov -- and I think the Shi Lang herself, is going to be operational much faster than people believe possible.

Are the ChiComs going to make some mistakes learning the lessons? Sure! They have probably made more than a few already -- which is probably at least part of the reason it's taking them so long to get this lady out to sea.

But they will get that lady out to sea, and they will master carrier flight operations (again, probably a lot faster than anyone here is willing to bet), and they will build more.

As far as her size and lack of steam catapults are concerned, I just shake my head and sigh. People look at her and look at our big brawny Nimitz class carriers and smirk. That, in my opinion is foolish.

She was never designed or intended to go airwing to airwing against American supercarriers. Chinese anti-carrier doctrine revolves around cruise missiles (both sub and surface launched) and their new anti-carrier ICBMs. The Shi Lang is the perfect size for her mission, which will be power projection in the Southeast Asian, Indian Ocean and African areas, in support of Chinese geopolitical objectives involving developing nations.

To give just one example, how does anyone think Indonesia or Malaysia is going to react, if after one of their orgies of bashing their ethnic Chinese populations, the Shi Lang carrying an airwing of 30 to 50 SU-33s and her battlegroup screen were to show up offshore?

Then there is the PLAN itself and the casual contempt in which too many FReepers seem to hold them. People really need to take a good look at Jeffhead's THE RISING SEA DRAGON page,

http://www.jeffhead.com/redseadragon/

and realize that China is building a modern blue water force that is very capable, professional and has the specific mission of driving the US out of the Western Pacific and Indian Oceans.

December 7, is just around the corner. On December 6, 59 years ago, a lot of people were scoffing into their beer about the "zipperheaded, fishhead-eating, Japanese" and gleefully predicting what the mighty USN would do to them if push ever came to shove. You may want to remember how that worked out.

28 posted on 11/27/2010 11:06:40 PM PST by Ronin ("Dismantle the TSA and send the screeners back to Wal-Mart.")
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To: ErnstStavroBlofeld

So without any carrier operating, no experience, no technical know how, no fleet support or experience with a carrier, and no operational airwing this thing is suppose to be a threat?

Together with that wonderfully reliable Russian naval technology (sarc) they included in the equation, this will not be a threat to anyone who is a friend of the US,,, or one single Virginia Class SSN.


29 posted on 11/27/2010 11:09:17 PM PST by Wildbill22
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To: Rockitz

Are you sure it’s as 3rd rate as you suspect?

This link is 3 years old:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-492804/The-uninvited-guest-Chinese-sub-pops-middle-U-S-Navy-exercise-leaving-military-chiefs-red-faced.html


30 posted on 11/27/2010 11:09:44 PM PST by ROTB (Sans Christian revival, we are government slaves, or nuked by China/Russia when we finally revolt.)
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To: Drew68
At what point though, should the US Military start to worry about China's military capabilities ?
31 posted on 11/27/2010 11:55:50 PM PST by American Constitutionalist (The fool has said in his heart, " there is no GOD " ..)
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To: mylife

Touching the throttle in a turn would be interesting. I looked up radial engine motorcycle. Most of them had the engine mounted at 90 degrees from that. I think that would work better. It would be harder to balance and doesn’t look nearly as cool.


32 posted on 11/28/2010 3:28:54 PM PST by magslinger ('This is a United States Marine Corps FA-18 fighter. Send 'em up, I'll wait!')
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To: magslinger

I would think the gryoscopic forces would ruin it as a viable bike.
I dont even like choppers. It defeats the geometry of a bikes handling.

However, I only posted it as the chicoms are likely to screw up to. They will just take 2 decades to do it.


33 posted on 11/28/2010 3:33:47 PM PST by mylife (Opinions ~ $1 Half Baked ~ 50c)
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To: Ronin

Do you know the teething pains the US Navy had with carriers?


34 posted on 11/28/2010 3:34:50 PM PST by mad_as_he$$ (V for Vendetta.)
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To: Ronin
On December 6, 59 years ago, a lot of people were scoffing into their beer about the "zipperheaded, fishhead-eating, Japanese" and gleefully predicting what the mighty USN would do to them if push ever came to shove. You may want to remember how that worked out.

We do.

We've also read some of the abuse that Japanese expeditionary soldiers wrote in their (captured) diaries about Americans. Your point being .... ?

35 posted on 11/28/2010 6:07:29 PM PST by lentulusgracchus
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To: mad_as_he$$

Give me a break. Of course I do. I am a former carrier sailor myself and have been fascinated with birdfarms since I was six years old and went aboard the USS Midway with my family at NAS Alameda for the first time.

I am also sure that China is going to go through its own teething pains (which will probably involve a moderate to high amount of blood, guts and feathers) but China, being China will simply shrug that off as the price of doing business.

What everyone seems to be ignoring is that the Chinese do not need to invent anything. All they are doing is adapting and improving what others, including us, have already done. They are quite good at that.

And, because they do not kowtow to public opinion like we do, they will get through the messy stages a lot faster.

You might as well ask if I know the teething pains the Chinese went through with submarine operations — which is every bit as complex, demanding and dangerous as carrier operations — and at which they have also become quite proficient.

Proficient enough to sneak a boat well into missile range of the USS Kitty Hawk undetected.

People really need to stop their sneering, wake up and smell the coffee. These are serious professional people who are working with world class hardware. If we do not get that dialed in now, we are going to get our balls kicked up next to our ears if it ever seriously drops in the pot.


36 posted on 11/28/2010 6:08:04 PM PST by Ronin ("Dismantle the TSA and send the screeners back to Wal-Mart.")
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To: Ronin
The Shi Lang is the perfect size for her mission, which will be power projection in the Southeast Asian, Indian Ocean and African areas, in support of Chinese geopolitical objectives involving developing nations.

You would seem to have the jump on us, then, on how the PLAN plans to employ this ship.

Aside from the rather pointed naming of the ship -- pointed at Taiwan -- it would appear that PLAN strategy seems to involve elimination of USN carrier battle groups through the use of asymmetrical weapons systems and doctrine, esp. involving IRBM's and large ASM's (including the Tomahawk system stolen/copied from the US), which would open the western Pacific and South China Sea to exploitation by Chinese CBG's built around Shi Lang, her sisters, and possibly smaller carriers and helicopter carriers.

There is nothing I've seen that would suggest any other employment than typical force projection on the Western model.

37 posted on 11/28/2010 6:14:16 PM PST by lentulusgracchus
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To: lentulusgracchus

Exactly. It’s not rocket science — or rather it is, because I expect the ChiComs to use RATO on their birds to get them off the deck with a full bag of gas — but it’s obvious to anyone who follows military trends in this neck of the woods.

Could China build a supercarrier ala Nimitz? Probably, but I don’t think they will. They might instead build another Shi Lang type around a nuclear propulsion plant, but even that is doubtful. They can build three STOBAL carriers for the price of one Nimitz style birdfarm, and that will give them flexibility that even we cannot match — at least not for very long.

China is very heavily invested in Africa and many other parts of the developing world. They want and need to have a way to project force into those areas. Shi Lang and her follow on sisters will give them that capability.

Even Japan is also moving back into carrier aviation via the Hyuga and Ise class helicopters, which can be adapted for STOVL operations very quickly.

They even have a newer, much bigger design on the horizon with the 22DDH class. Why? Because the JMSDF planners can see what the ChiComs are doing and know that they are not going to be able to depend on the US to protect their interests forever, so they are going to have to do it themselves.


38 posted on 11/28/2010 7:05:09 PM PST by Ronin ("Dismantle the TSA and send the screeners back to Wal-Mart.")
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To: EagleUSA

So? China is a generation or two away from a competent aircraft carrier fleet.


39 posted on 11/28/2010 7:09:15 PM PST by MinorityRepublican
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To: Ronin
Not much point in China's building short-armed carriers for STOVL and small fighters like the MiG-29K, when the apparent winning formula would be Su-33's aboard anything big enough to accommodate them.

The big weakness in US NAVAIR the last few years has been the disappearance of the Toms. The Chinese would, I think, be looking to exploit that asymmetry by deploying R-33E/AA-9 "Amos"-equipped Su-33's afloat, which would replicate in some fashion the long reach of the F-14/AIM-54 combination. (Wonder why the Chinese didn't go for the bigger, ASM-ready Su-32 two-seater while they were at it?)

Taiwan and Japan both possess "unsinkable aircraft carriers" and I don't think the Japanese would be as urgently challenged by the appearance of Chinese CBG's as the US would be, not while Japan continues to operate F-15J's.

40 posted on 11/28/2010 8:04:01 PM PST by lentulusgracchus
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