M1A1 HA (Heavy Armor) Abrams, 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment "Brave Rifles" - Desert Storm, 1991
Posted on 11/21/2010 9:28:07 AM PST by Nachum
The title is quite misleading, this is not an article about the introduction of armor by the United States, its an article lamenting why the terms of our surrender have not yet been drawn up and the surrender ceremony scheduled for live, prime time television. I wonder who is filing all those complaints about the meanie Americans? What do they stand to gain if our enemies prevail?
Our enemies and the press seem to have their panties in a wad about what we are doing of late. Sounds like we are on the right track.
I think tanks would be provocative. I mean, how will we get those people to love us, if we blow them up? Please, let their be white doves emanating from those muzzles, not weapons of war.
(brought to you my today’s Democratic Party)
Lets not get carried away with all this speculation about a handfull of tanks. This is a company sized unit not a battalion. The figures of the Marines being sent I’ve seen was 100. What is that 6 MI tanks max ? They’re being sent to do some tdy specialized tasks and will probably wind up hanging around Kabul or the airbase.
You are correct. This is a declaration of defeat and the running of the war by perfumed princes, and NOT the special ops people who know how to fight the taliban tactically.
So, we have gone from “winning” to hearts and minds and logistically and tactically ineffective weapons. This is mountain terrain. Apparently, when we helped the mujahideen defeat the soviets with stingers and guerilla tactics, we knew THEN how to fight against what we are now apparently doing. The comm may be better and better techie stuff like predators, but you still have to have people no longer fighting to win. Fighting is a way of making a better living for native Afghanis.
And now, have we also re-defined the mission? It is LBJ all over again. Thanks, democrats and techno beltway bandits- hope you like your houses in MD and VA. Our people will be wasted.
The 10th Mtn. division would understand. The taliban are tribal. The war for them is over who gets to sell opium poppies. The country is otherwise a wasteland. Time to read Kipling again. Thanks for your comments.
M1A1 HA (Heavy Armor) Abrams, 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment "Brave Rifles" - Desert Storm, 1991
Canada eh!
OK, while you’re razzing on a poster who states some observations even a gamer would have, let’s talk over a more recent and verifiable application of armor— in this same theatre.
The soviets know or knew quite a bit about armor use in insurgency. The US helped the afghans take them out and their air support, with Stingers and small arms. While quite a bit has changed in comm, air support and hardware to change the tactics, the simple application of these will not per force effect a victory. Better kill ratios perhaps, but not a strategic victory.
The mission has been re-defined politically and there is certainly money to be made inside and outside the Beltway- they are lining up. Targeted predator/sat/comm links to special ops not linked to any one tribal unit (since they are interested in the opium trade primarily) would achieve the US’s goals much better. But, that’s the point- this is now a NATO FUBAR, totally. And opium still flows so the French are happy.
Is the opium poppy grown in “the Southwest” part of Afghanistan?
Yup. He also wrote "The deployment of a company of M1 Abrams tanks, which will be fielded by the Marines in the country's southwest, will allow ground forces to target insurgents from a greater distance - and with more of a lethal punch - than is possible from any other U.S. military vehicle." But the US has self-propelled artillery and rocket launchers with greater range and lethality than an Abrams. Most journalists are not nearly as smart as they think they are.
From the current commander and chief:
“I’m always worried about using the word ‘victory,’ because, you know, it invokes this notion of Emperor Hirohito coming down and signing a surrender to MacArthur.”
Most journalists are less intelligent than their shoes.
I think this is a big mistake. They ate the Ruskie’s lunch here.
I was a grunt with a Cav unit in VN, Tanks are mobile arty, bunker no problem, sniper in a building, no problem, or a tree for that matter. You have to have a plan and coordinate.
Excellent cammo.
“But since it’s the only game in town, and all the conventional force generals got to get their ribbons and get their tickets stamped.”
Yes. That more than any operational benefit. We have helicopters and gunships and Predators and Javelins and tons of other systems faster and more easily deployable than an MBT. About the only good an Abrams would be is when it uses that “new” cannister/grapeshot round to gut human wave attacks, or as a bulldozer to drive over mud huts.
“Tanks have worked well in similar situations before. Recall that one of the reasons why the US got bit so hard in Somalia was because Clinton’s first SecDef (McNamara “Wiz Kid” Les Aspin) refused to fulfill request to deploy armor.”
Excellent point. BTW, elcid made the comment you quoted, so I’m copying him. (I agree 100%, just thought he might be interested in your point, too.)
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