Posted on 11/19/2010 10:10:35 AM PST by TXnMA
<SNIP>
Video posted on the CBS Los Angeles website shows an object flying through the evening sky Monday that left a large contrail, or vapor trail. While cruising the skies Monday at sunset, Sky2 captured on video what appears to be a missile making its way up into the sky from over the Pacific Ocean off the California coast.
Pentagon officials were stumped by the event. “Nobody within the Department of Defense that we’ve reached out to has been able to explain what this contrail is, where it came from,” Pentagon spokesman Col. Dave Lapan said.
<SNIP>
(Excerpt) Read more at losangeles.cbslocal.com ...
You must have missed the memo! ;^) That's the sun reflecting off the bottom of a plane headed straight and level at very high altitude, although that same sunlight evidently missed illuminating the flat, level bottom of a supposend condensation trail stretching behind for hundreds of miles in the same manner. Fickle thing, a westerly sun.
And besides, it's not Phoenix anymore, it's Ontario Airport, about 50 miles due east of the coast of Santa Monica, where the camerman possibly was located (though where the helicopter actually was has yet to be determined). AND as it happens, that particular flight TO Ontario, according to yeoman's work by a savvy FReeper, WOULD have been at a very high altitude (surprising, but true) heading southerly, to make sudden dramatic drops in altitude (it was a cargo plane, not a passenger jet, so it could get away with it) on turnaround heading north-east, well over land, to be able to land at Ontario Airport.
Then again, I think THAT flight has now been abandoned for yet a THIRD "proven" commercial airplane flight, though I'm not sure which one. I've kind of lost track!
LOL!! I’ll salute that... ‘-)
bttt
Perhaps an email to the station with a link to this thread and a request for the real raw video would get a response?
Scott Diener is the Vice President and News Director of KCBS-TV and KCAL-TV. The only email addresses I can find are:
CBS2 News: kcbstvnews@cbs.com
KCAL9 News: kcalnews@cbs.com
“Since he makes a living knowing such things”
Your friend is very lucky to make a living PRETENDING to know such things.
What's that? Oceanside, Carlsbad, allmost 50 miles EAST of the the general area where the helicopter probably was (no one has yet determined that)? What's that? Almost 80 miles SOUTH of the Santa Monica area?
The "southland" covers a lot of territory. It's why I've been referring, in these threads, specificaly to "the L.A. area," because that's primarily what I am familiar with -- Los Angeles and mid to north Orange counties. But FReepers who can't be blamed for not knowing that, are easy prey for folks who speak in terms of being familiar with "the Southland" or "Southern California."
“My stars. And not too far back, you were talking about the arrogance of fighter pilots. [^)”
Then you remember that I also said we wouldn’t want them any other way. I made no representation of my own arrogance, though in subjects like this aircraft contrail, I am definitely right, and anyone else, including your professor friend, Retired Air Force Generals, and Jane’s Editors, or Glenn Beck are just wrong to the extent that they claim it is a missile and not a contrail.
Is it really arrogance when you are right and all these “experts” are wrong?
“But of course, we all know that you couldn’t possibly be one of those kinds of engineers. :^)”
If I were wrong, you may have grounds to say that. I’m not wrong. You and the professor friend of yours who deluded you into believing him because he is an “expert” are wrong.
So if I were to take the converse of your argument, I just might be the greatest engineer ever.....but I’m not SAYING that, just following your logic.
Nothing to apologize for. You were asking a reasonable question and that was the first time I addressed that particular issue with anyone.
When I was serious into these threads I was in a state where I saw 30 reasons why the video showed a contrail, but only addressed a few of them because, frankly, I just didn’t want to type that much and a few was all that was needed.
This issue is another of the 30.
Funny. A lot of people are saying that, coming from different sides. You know nothing about my "expert," and I know nothing about you. I can no more judge the validity of your expertise than you can that of my source. I don't know what you've accomplished and done and for whom, but I do know the same with regard to my friend.
You say of yourself, "I'm not wrong." He has the same confidence in his own abilities, and I know his track record, but don't know yours.
That's about as far as it can go. Where did I see that you have practiced experience understanding and conveying the principles of perspective and lighting?
>>I’ll take his word for it over guys like Rob, TX and Mu, I believe NONE of whom have ever seen an actual missile launch, and I believe whose first-hand knowledge of L.A. area skies (and their contrails!) is limited to nonexistent. Though all three certainly have a high opinion of their own abilities!<<
What is his area of specialty, again? Also, “experts” come down on both sides of this, which begs the question, “what makes someone an expert, exactly?”
Plenty of “experts” who are very familiar with contrails in LA have said that not only is this an aircraft contrail, but it is not the first they have seen that looks like this, nor will it be the last.
Regarding your “expert”, “Of education, knowledge and wisdom, the least is education and the greatest is wisdom.” - Robroy.
Also.
Argumentum Appeal to Authority:
http://onegoodmove.org/fallacy/aa.htm
“While sometimes it may be appropriate to cite an authority to support a point, often it is not. In particular, an appeal to authority is inappropriate if:
1. the person is not qualified to have an expert opinion on the subject,
2. experts in the field disagree on this issue.
3. the authority was making a joke, drunk, or otherwise not being serious “
Is your friend a contrail or cloud formation expert? And is that enough if all he got was the “raw” video?
Yup, I definitely didn’t receive that memo. Lol!
Your post makes the excellent point regarding why we should be careful about trusting “official experts” on this thing.
Especially when they disagree.
Problem is, sometimes there is not enough evidence to say one way or the other (though I do not think that is the case here, it is just very misleading at first glance). In those cases, we defer to Occam’s Razor.
“You know nothing about my “expert,””
Yes I do. He’s not an expert. Not in this case, because he is wrong.
What more do I need to know?
>>You know nothing about my “expert,” and I know nothing about you.<<
Not true. We know your expert’s opinion on this. That means that, although he/she may be an expert on SOMETHING, he/she is apparently not an expert on this.
Careful, there, FRiend! Remember we only have loads of demonstrated science on our side -- and they have this information-loaded, crappy video and "experts" (just ask 'em) to base their guesses upon it!
Besides -- some of them will tell you that they've actually been in Viet Nam(oops! wrong "expert!) actually seen a missile -- bunches of 'em...
Face it, FRiend: logic, science and facts can't trump he opining of an "expert" who's seen a fraudulent video -- much less one who's also seen a genuwine missile!!
Ask your “expert” why the shadow of the contrail on the lower parallel cloud/haze layer in the op snapshot matches the contrail precisely.
The answer is that both the contrail and the cloud layer are parallel to each other. BTW, they are also parallel to the earth.
But don’t tell him/her the answer. See if he/she can figure it out for themself. ;)
I've gotten aholt of cars jus' lak the naytives eh, and driven them all about, 24/7 ~ look, we've got relates with summer passes to Disneyland because they live within shouting distance, and others live in villas overlooking the Pacific.
Almost no place I haven't been around there one time or the other ~ even played with the penguins.
It's all one big ol' happy playground with a Marine base in the middle!
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.