Obama Praises Indian Chief Who Killed U.S. General

Fox News ^ | November 15, 2010

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

***And now you are just babbling nosense about the Nez Perce***

Babble? Read their history written at the time.

[dirtboy]

I've read the history of the Nez Perce. The whites coveted their land and provoked a war in the process of driving them off of it. Chief Josephy tried for peace as long as possible.

Typos about Kansas are stupid sideshows to what happened there.

[dirtboy]

Sand Creek was truly the worst Indian massacre in the history of this country. In most others there were misunderstandings (Wounded Knee) or larger conflict (Washita River). Sand Creek was an atrocity, as clear of one as there was in the history of the West.

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

***Soule later testified against Chivington for the atrocities committed by him and his troops.***

As always they turn on their own. I am reminded of an officer at Sand Creek who saw several men trying to shoot a woman. He said..”I would not make a heathern of myself by shooting a woman!” A second later that woman put an arrow throuhgh his arm and he had an immediate attitude adjustment. “SHOOT THAT BITCH!” he yelled.

The While the Army looked for scapegoats for Sand Creek, Chivington was really tried in the Eastern Press. The Western press had a different view of him. Years later he was invited to speak at an Old Settlers Day in Colorado where he related everything about what led up to Sand Creek and ended with the words...”I STAND BY SAND CREEK!” The crowd went wild with applause, yelling hollering all in favor of what he did at Sand Creek.

I am reminded of the boy from Arkansas who killed a rabbid dog in Texas.
When the Texas press found he was from Arkansas they printed...”Little bast**d from Arkansas kills beloved family pet!”

[Logic n' Reason]

I was referring to this particular battle, not the entire campaign....tho to be sure, the entire campaign did have it's problems and issues....not the least of which was the reason it was undertaken in the first place.

But that's history for ya!!

[Sherman Logan]

Well, there were some out in CA and OR that were pretty bad, too, but I believe all of those were carried out by unorganized militia, in other words, mobs.

There were also some horrible ones in colonial times.

But the actual US Army behaved fairly well in this regard throughout its history.

[bcsco]

Wasn't there a wildfire that burned the area some years ago revealing things that were not previously known. I think they even collected spent casing and traced some weapons through the battle.

Doug Scott and Richard Fox were the two archaeologists who conducted the investigations back in 1984-85. Archaeological events have also been conducted since, including in the valley area. Here's a link to some interesting reading.

And here's a link to one of the most fascinating recent volumes on the battle. A must read for anyone with an interest in the battle.

[Sherman Logan]

Years later he was invited to speak at an Old Settlers Day in Colorado where he related everything about what led up to Sand Creek and ended with the words...”I STAND BY SAND CREEK!” The crowd went wild with applause, yelling hollering all in favor of what he did at Sand Creek.

Yes, he was supported by Coloradoans.

For which they should have been ashamed.

[dirtboy]

As always they turn on their own.

The evidence is ample against Chivington. As another poster noted, it's idiotic to try and defend him.

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

***Sand Creek was truly the worst Indian massacre in the history of this country. ***

Does it beat Fort Mims? How about the masacres at Ft Dearborne where an entire generation of white children were murdered? Does it beat the Conspiracy of Pontiac?

There were worse massacres. In one massacre over four hundred indians were killed by the evil attackers.

Oh by the way, the attackers were also Indians. Hopi vs Navajo wars.

And if you want one before the White Man showed up on the scene here is this link.

http://www.dickshovel.com/scalp.html

[nmh]

I read original source history and what has been done to ACCURATE history is inexcusable.

Yes, Obama HATES the white man and he will go to great lengths to ONLY highlight what he believes denigrates the WHITE MAN. He wants YOU to HATE America as much as HE HATES AMERICA. Obama lives on a diet of pure HATRED for the U.S. and it's history and anything decent and civilized because he is the opposite.

[bcsco]

Custer essentially used the same tactics at LBH as he used at the Washita 8 years earlier. An attack by a divided command on an Indian village that had not been scouted previously. At the Washita it worked (although he came close to possible defeat there as well...). At the LBH, it didn't. At the LBH, the Indian camps were far more concentrated with the population much more numerous, the terrain was considerably different and didn't lend itself to a defensive role, and Custer was ill served by his most senior officers.

But, that doesn't take away from his own culpability in the affair. As I stated, there's blame to go around just about anywhere one looks. That's true of the battle itself, as well as all the other forces at play.

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

****The evidence is ample against Chivington. As another poster noted, it’s idiotic to try and defend him.****

The Eastern Press developed quite a mythology about Sand Creek.

I have a TIME-LIFE book (1973)that has repeated one of the myths. A baby was found at the battlefield and thrown into a wagon box, A few days later the baby was left on the snow covered plains to die.

TRUTH! This was debunked, along with several other myths still circulated today, over 140 years go.

A live and well baby was found and given to a captive indian woman to care for. Several days later the soldiers noticed the baby was missing. The woman given charge had tossed the baby aside just ofter being given it to take care of.

Might want to read Dunn’s MASSACRES OF THE MOUNTAINS and Ware’s THE INDIAN WARS OF 1864.
Maybe even THE ROMANCE AND TRAGEDY OF PIONEER LIFE
And if you can find a copy...THE SAVAGE YEARS. A compilation of pioneer rememberances of that time.

[Logic n' Reason]

True enough....and Custer came much closer to losing at the Washita than is generally supposed.

BTW: I'm given to understand the the BLB is still taught at West Point as how not to execute a battle plan. Hell, every one's got to be good for something!!!

Probably the same thing could be said of Joan d' Arc!

[antisocial]

Bookmark

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

***Yes, he was supported by Coloradoans.

For which they should have been ashamed.***

Why should they be ashamed? Because of CHIVINGTON many of those people there did not end up with their scalps hanging on a lodgepole.

[bcsco]

One may even go so far as to say the defeat at the LBH had its roots at the Washita. It was there that the divisions within the 7th Cavalry, between those faithful to Custer and those opposed to him, really began to take root. And the animosities that grew out of the Washita were still there on June 25th, 1876.

[RegulatorCountry]

You are literally incapable of viewing history through any other lens than government, Sherman Logan.

You’re a creature of government, obviously. I’m not, and neither is my family. Neither were the vast majority of the people you wish to confine to your little game of toy soldiers in a misguided attempt to define them by that means.

You’ll continue to be befuddled by the actions of real live people as a result, in the past, present and future, as you quite clearly are in this instance.

[dirtboy]

Because of CHIVINGTON many of those people there did not end up with their scalps hanging on a lodgepole.

Because of Chivington a lot of warriors such as Roman Nose went on retalitory raids.

You are about the only one here buying what you are selling regarding Chivington.

[Sherman Logan]

Actually the Indian war intensified after Sand Creek. He made the situation much worse.

He killed relatively few warriors, mostly women and children. The men were understandably pissed off by his actions.

Don’t believe me. Look up the official report by Congress, which investigated the massacre and recommended criminal prosecution for his actions.