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Irregular warfare offers new role for propeller driven aircraft
Flight International ^ | 26/10/10 | Stephen Trimble

Posted on 10/25/2010 9:06:30 PM PDT by sukhoi-30mki

Irregular warfare offers new role for propeller driven aircraft

By Stephen Trimble

Bringing back the propeller-driven fighter in the age of counterinsurgency may seem to some a belated no-brainer or to others a wasteful diversion with potentially suicidal risk to the pilot.

As late as early 2008, the leadership of the US Air Force sided firmly with the sceptics. Lt Gen Donald Hoffman, then the USAF's top-ranking acquisition official, implied to a group of reporters in April of that year that the idea of deploying propeller-driven aircraft in modern combat is too risky.

"We can rebuild the [North American] P-51 - great airplane," said Hoffman, citing the propeller-driven Second World War fighter. Then, however, the former Lockheed Martin F-16 pilot pointed at each of the journalists. "All we need is you, you, you and you to go fly it into the threat zone," he said.

The Second World War P-51: a template for a modern-day propeller-driven fighter? Picture: Staff Sgt Jeremy Smith/US Air Force

Propeller-driven aircraft fly lower and slower than fast jets such as the F-16, and carry less cockpit armour than the "titanium bathtubs" surrounding pilots in the Fairchild A-10 or the Boeing AH-64 Apache.

It is this combination that drove the type out of the USAF inventory immediately after the Vietnam war, with the retirements of the Douglas A-1 Skyraider, the Cessna O-2 Skymaster and the de Havilland C-7 Caribou.

Paradoxically, however, the propeller-driven aircraft's ability to fly low and slow for long periods is responsible for a rebirth of enthusiasm within the USAF since shortly after Hoffman made his remarks about reintroducing the P-51.

The USAF leadership's position on the light attack mission would quickly

(Excerpt) Read more at flightglobal.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: aerospace; coin; irregularwarfare; p51
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To: flowerplough
I remember reading the story of a Jug pilot who was on a strafing run in Germany. He went a little low and wasn't paying attention. Before him loomed a brick wall. Unable to pull up in time, the aircraft went through the brick wall. And survived. And flew him home.

Not that is a tough aircraft!

41 posted on 10/25/2010 11:43:59 PM PDT by hoagy62 (.)
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To: hoagy62

Not=Now


42 posted on 10/25/2010 11:44:41 PM PDT by hoagy62 (.)
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To: Kevmo
That makes Spooky the Gunship a contender, especially if it has artillery rounds.

My son is on his first enlistment in the AF. He has a rather boring, mundane job (repairing runways) so whether he wants to reenlist goes from "hell ya" to "hell no" twice a day. Though I guess that's true for most :-)

Anyhow, he was on another rant one day when I told him that if he was going to get out he should check with the local Reserve unit and see what they had available for slots. On this particular day that was the last thing he wanted to hear and started off on a tangent about how if he wasn't staying active duty he sure as hell wasn't staying in the Reserves.

Then I said, "I've gotten a couple emails from the recruiter over there and he says they have a couple of Aerial Gunner slots open. You, know, the AC-130". I was just yanking his chain to see what he'd say and after this pregnant pause he says, "Well, that would be pretty cool." LOL!

43 posted on 10/25/2010 11:54:13 PM PDT by VeniVidiVici (Defund National Peoples Radio!! Democrats are for free speech. Just not for you.)
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To: flowerplough

You are awesome. Thanks for the post you made and all you taught with it.


44 posted on 10/26/2010 12:02:00 AM PDT by Weirdad ("Welcome to Zimbabwe! Now hand over your property...." -- by freeper Regulator. Mob rule is here.)
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To: Robe

My big brother flew AD1 Skyraiders during his first tour in Viet Nam. He rates them almost as high as the A6’s he flew later.


45 posted on 10/26/2010 12:06:32 AM PDT by Mogollon (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. -- Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Kevmo

ping


46 posted on 10/26/2010 12:08:09 AM PDT by RJR_fan (Christians need to reclaim and excel in the genre of science fiction.)
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To: flowerplough
I will rate that 8 tons of destruction first as long
as I live, and no one can change my mind. I was there.

Thanks, for the info....
& your service to the country. :)

47 posted on 10/26/2010 12:22:20 AM PDT by skinkinthegrass (Imam Zer0: DeathCARE, Is my plan...So just die (quicky), please & save $$$$ :^)
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To: flowerplough; Homer_J_Simpson

Fascinating post. Thanks for sharing that with us!

Homer_J_Simpson, just wanted to bring flowerplough’s post to your attention since you keep a WWII ping list.


48 posted on 10/26/2010 12:23:03 AM PDT by Yardstick
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To: sukhoi-30mki

The USAF did bring back the P-51 - sorta

The Piper PA-48 was built on the P-51 but with a turbine engine

30mm gun pod and all

Fly in competition with the A-10.

Cool airframe, the A-10 carries more - both are COIN A/C


49 posted on 10/26/2010 12:44:48 AM PDT by ASOC (What are you doing now that Mexico has become OUR Chechnya?)
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To: VeniVidiVici

‘Tweren’t me. Sorry. I shudda put sprinkled quotes in hear and there. Sorry. Link’s at bottom of post.


50 posted on 10/26/2010 12:55:08 AM PDT by flowerplough (Thomas Sowell: Those who look only at Obama's deeds tend to become Obama's critics.)
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To: flowerplough

That was an excellent post, worthy of it’s own thread!


51 posted on 10/26/2010 1:26:57 AM PDT by Sarajevo (You're jealous because the voices only talk to me.)
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To: flowerplough
‘Tweren’t me. Sorry.

No way! And to think I almost told you to make sure your left turn signal was off ;-)

52 posted on 10/26/2010 1:37:58 AM PDT by VeniVidiVici (Defund National Peoples Radio!! Democrats are for free speech. Just not for you.)
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To: sasportas

The AD was a one of a kind aircraft - like the P-47, P51 and F4U. Best at their mission and in their day. Of all these great planes, only the AD survived until the Vietnam War.

The Air Force flew them until they literally fell apart Air Force wanted Douglas to reopen the line;but Douglas declined because it would have been prohibitively expensive.

Would the AD be usefuk - or any of the others - be safe enough and effective enough to be built today. Maybe the AD - but only for ground support!

With dive brakes extended, it could stand on its nose, at under 100 knots and 50 ft above the ground and rake enemy positions with machine gun fire or fly “normal” altitudes and use rockets and napalm. Yes, bring that back too.


53 posted on 10/26/2010 2:25:35 AM PDT by NTHockey (Rules of engagement #1: Take no prisoners)
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To: flowerplough

Love that P-47 roundup, thanks. The T-Bolt was one of the great fighting birds.


54 posted on 10/26/2010 3:30:09 AM PDT by iopscusa (El Vaquero. (SC Lowcountry Cowboy))
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To: VeniVidiVici

There you go. I was just watching a series on Youtube about ‘The Jug’.


55 posted on 10/26/2010 4:26:06 AM PDT by dljordan ("His father's sword he hath girded on, And his wild harp slung behind him")
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To: flowerplough

Good experience - Something that I cannot compare, since my times was below the water and in shipyards.

But a question please: Wouldn’t the AD-1 Skyraider more than replace the P-47 for all those same reasons for this proposed role? Faster, more cargo, more room, more range?


56 posted on 10/26/2010 5:22:05 AM PDT by Robert A Cook PE (I can only donate monthly, but socialists' ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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To: Dick Bachert

Apache’s are a maintenance nightmare.


57 posted on 10/26/2010 5:23:36 AM PDT by mad_as_he$$ (Playing by the rules only works if both sides do it!)
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To: One Name
A lot of the article whizzed right on by me but there is a reason that many successful demo derby drivers still run contact-point ignitions.

Many successful demo derby drivers run electronic ignitions.

58 posted on 10/26/2010 5:53:40 AM PDT by SeeSac
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To: smokingfrog
Updated with a turboprop engine:


59 posted on 10/26/2010 5:56:39 AM PDT by Yo-Yo (Is the /sarc tag really necessary?)
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To: HANG THE EXPENSE

Did you know “Hang the Expense” was the name of a very famous B-17?

Probably telling you something you know all too well!


60 posted on 10/26/2010 6:29:53 AM PDT by Bartholomew Roberts
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