Boondoggle in the Motor City: Detroit's Train to Nowhere ( Choo-choo! )

Reason ^ | Oct 13, 2010 | Reason

[Leisler]

Youtube link.

[Tribune7]

I missed that.

Bet he comes back.

[Paladin2]

The Lord (of this manor) spake:

"We don’t want any fricken government trains! Got it?!!"

[lack-of-trust]

I agree, it would be a shame if he left.

I enjoy his articles on passenger rail service.

I am fascinated by the technology and the politics that promotes it.

[Tribune7]

I think many Freepers are excessively negative about Rail.

I think it's less that we are negative about rail and more that we are skeptical about demands for tax money.

If a private group were to submit a proposal to build a subway or commuter rail line with private money, I'm very confident you'd see a lot of Freepers giving loud cheers and sincere well-wishes.

[Rappini]

The money would be better spent on improving the Roads up there. Everytime I go up to Little Falujah my Root Channels have to readjusted when I get back to Indiana.

[Arrowhead1952]

From his last post on FR to Jim Robinson:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2607597/posts?page=60#60

>>Over 35 million Americans rely on some form of public tansportation to commute to work every weekday.
If that makes them “marxist” in your worldview, then I suggest that you refrain from hanging out with the whacknut libertarians. They obviously have been a bad influence on you.<<

Which got this reply from Jim:

...
It’s not wanted here. Drop it or leave. The choice is yours and I’m not going to argue with you about it. Zip it or zot it.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2607597/posts?page=65#65

and ShadowAce gave this reply:

10M in NYC, another 5-10M in LA, several million more in Chicago.

Doesn’t leave much for the rest of the country, and the argument fails.

---

I would have included the millions in the Baltamore / DC area in that and let Willie explain why we need pubic transportation.

[TStro]

My brother is an eleotronics engineer. A truly brilliant man. But when I told him I was going to the first San Antonio Tea Party event, he said it was a waste of time, that there was no way we could change the course of events, even though he agrees with us. Smart in some ways, not in others.

[Tribune7]

It would be far better to privatize them

I think SEPTA -- the public transit system that I'm most familiar with -- would provide a lot better service and have a lot more users if there was a financial motivation to increase riders.

As of now, there is none.

SEPTA management and labor get paid the same regardless of how many people use the system.

It's actually a disincentive to increase ridership.

Just consider this: way back when public transit in Philly was private transfers were free. Now, they cost $1.

[cripplecreek]

I think it's less that we are negative about rail and more that we are skeptical about demands for tax money.

There are also questions that the choo choo marxists refuse to answer with good reason. If the people recognize the ammount of land that would need to be siezed for the nationwide rail project, it would die a painful death.

Some months back Willie himself posted a map of a proposed line of less than 20 miles in Pa. The map showed hundreds of buildings that were marked in red due to the fact that they were in the way of the rail.

[Arrowhead1952]

Note to self - use spell check

Baltamore = Baltimore

but, spell check would not have caught this though.

pubic = public

[hosepipe]

Why is it city rail scams are always priced in the Billions not the Millions?..

OH!.. I thought so as well..

[GonzoGOP]

I would have included the millions in the Baltimore / DC area in that and let Willie explain why we need pubic transportation

I think he did explain himself in great detail in a virtually limitless number of other threads over the years. And his reasons were exactly the problem. It was pure socialism. He wanted the government to seize the privately owned railroads. Willie wanted all transportation was to be government owned. He wanted massive taxes on gasoline and diesel used in private autos. If you have been reading his posts for the last five years like I have you would know when it comes to transportation he was a Marxist, or at best a Socialist, pure and simple.

Lately as the dreams of a stimulus funded rail paradise have slammed head on into the immovable object of financial reality Willie's responses have been getting nastier than usual. His attacks on Laz were pure adhominim and had nothing to do with finance, engineering, or politics. They were just nasty personal attacks. He may come back, but he definitely needed a time out.

[Mygirlsmom]

I think many Freepers are excessively negative about Rail.

You answered why a little farther down in your post.

It would be interesting to see if the cost and ridership projections were based in reality, often they do not seem to be.

They are not based in reality, because, like "Global Warming", rail transportation has nothing to do with transportation. It's about a much larger agenda encompassing "Land use planning" and ultimate control of the population.

Not enough people are excessively negative enough about rail IMHO, because they're being fooled into thinking it's all about getting from point A to point B.

[Fraxinus]

Contrast this with systems like Chicago's or New York's. The trains, subways and elevated trains are grade separated. They move literally millions. They function as remote parking lots for the densely populated inner city financial districts. While they lose money, the subsidy is less than would be necessary to expand the highways to accommodate the traffic. Remember these are old cities and making the highways larger means knocking down buildings.

I would also make another point, for many cities these systems are not set up as a system. An example of this is to contrast DC to Baltimore, both cities had systems designed in the late 60's early 70's, DC's was completed approximately as designed by 2000. Baltimore only built one of the original legs, then 20 years later built the current light rail there. There is no transfer station between the light rail and the earlier subway system.

[gunsequalfreedom]

Choo-choo Willie is gone? What happened? His obsession with 19th century transportation always provided some comic relief in this forum. I'll miss him.

I never met Choo Choo Willie but if done right (and that seems an impossibility in the U.S.) local and regional rail is a great way to get around.

These two factors are critical to success and failure.

1. The customer (riders) must get what they want. When riders get to their destination, the system must deliver them to their destination, not just to the train station. If there is not a good (emphasis on good) local transportation system, forget it. Once at their final destination, riders need some sort of a car or an efficient local transit system (buses don't cut it).

2. Politicians cant get what they want. With the politicians deciding, trains will go to areas whose politicians are either the most skilled politically or have the most collective influence. That is far different than sending trains to where they make the most sense.

[mountainlion]

I think willie was chewing up too much bandwidth. Trains were great when they built the transcontinental rail road and our train system helped us win WWII but they are a much smaller part now. I do not see empty roads just empty buss and trains on public transportation. Give me my old truck and cheap gas an you can build what ever you can afford. Do not expect to spend my retirement on your blue sky dreams.

[gunsequalfreedom]

If he has left for reasons he says, FR is slipping. One of the stregths of FR has been expert members. It seems there are party hacks on here at times trying to steer discussion, all about party and not about an objective look if that happens to rub the GOP the wrong way. If his qualifications are what he says they are, it is a loss to FR. Manners people.

I am an Industrial Engineer. I am neither a lawyer nor politician, journalist nor pundit, salesman or stock broker. I am not trained in rhetorical hyperbole. I do not advocate communism, marxism, socialism, hedonism, atheism, libertarianism, conservatism or capitalism.

I am an Industrial Engineer.

I promote "continuous improvement". I promote changes in methods/procedures and technology to improve work productivity and quality in a manner that is not abusive to the workforce and is compliant with regulatory safety and environmental standards.

The Industrial Enginering motto is "Work Smarter, Not Harder", and in my dozen years of participation on this forum, I've posted countless articles in the vain hope of helping people become better informed.

It is with deep regret that I no longer find this to be an acceptable venue for those efforts.

It has become merely another setting where tactics of intellectual thuggery and intimidation are used to maintain the status quo and keep people disinformed and misguided.

[gunsequalfreedom]

No, read his bio, the last line.

[SamAdams76]

Good points. I normally work in Boston but have meetings in New York City several times a year. One time, I decided to take the "Acela Express" from Boston to Manhattan. Never again, mainly due to the reasons you point out. On my return trip, I was dumped into South Station (Boston) and it was an odyssey of nearly four hours before I was able to get to my car and drive to my suburban home. That was twice as long as it took me to get from Penn Station in Manhattan to South Station in Boston!

It is much faster for me to drive to Milford, CT (2 hour drive) where I can park my car and take the Metro-North commuter rail into the city from there. If I can get to the Milford, CT train station by 4PM, I can be home by 6:30PM (140 mile drive) which beats taking the train all the way to Boston and then fighting rush hour traffic from there to get home.

[gunsequalfreedom]

Been lurking here for something around two years, and found his obsession to be stragely fascinating. What a bizarre man. Far from being merely enamored of trains, and thinking they were economically desirable, he seemed to believe that they could cure cancer, do the dishes, and return us to Eden.

I don't look to trains to do the dishes but I much prefer a system where I can leave my car in the garage except for a weekend drive. If you even lived in a place where there is a great regional/local transportation system and you used it, you would agree.