Posted on 09/29/2010 8:40:24 PM PDT by Undocumented_capitalist
(09-29) 14:33 PDT Washington - -- Hoping to arrest an ominous slide in two recent polls, California U.S. Senate candidate Carly Fiorina went on a full-scale attack against three-term incumbent Barbara Boxer as a tax-and-spend failure in a radio debate today in Pasadena, while Boxer painted Fiorina as an anti-environmental extremist out of sync with state voters.
(Excerpt) Read more at sfgate.com ...
It is one thing China and India on their own developed capabilities to compete against the US. It is another when the US train the Chinese and Indian to catch up for the sole purpose of closing US factories and reap more profits on very low Chinese labor. Do you know who taught Japan how to catch up to the US, an American name Demming. He did a good job in taking out the US steel and auto industry.
Do you know who open factories to train Chinese workers on the latest manufacturing techniques during the 1990’s when the US was still making money on goods manufactured in the US. You guessed it, US corporations.
You don’t see Japan doing this. You definitely don’t see China doing this. Seen any Chinese technicians in your factory or office teaching you how to undercut Chinese manufacturing and IT business. The only Chinese I see is the one bringing cash to Wash DC and buying politicians. You see the Chinese businessmen remembers he is a Chinese first, second and third. Same with Korean and Japanese businessmen. American businessmen would serve to the highest bidder and profit. Profit first, second and third. Country, what country??? I will be an American when he is in trouble overseas and needs US Marines to save his axx!! Other then that he would screw America for a half of percent increase in profits.
Don’t like my viewpoint. Let us compare. US practices profit before nation business model, oops, economy blown, gov and corporations deep in debt, energy dependent, no rare earth mines and lots of Americans out of work. China practices business tempered by national needs, economy booming, gov flushed with cash, critical industrial resources secured and people working their axx off. In fact most of Asia is the only region left where the economy is still running. Rest my case.
Arthur Jensen from the movie “Network” (1976) basically summed up how American businessmen see things:
You are an old man who thinks in terms of nations and peoples. There are no nations. There are no peoples. There are no Russians. There are no Arabs. There are no third worlds. There is no West. There is only one holistic system of systems, one vast and immane, interwoven, interacting, multivariate, multinational dominion of dollars. Petro-dollars, electro-dollars, multi-dollars, reichmarks, rins, rubles, pounds, and shekels.
It is the international system of currency which determines the totality of life on this planet. That is the natural order of things today. That is the atomic and subatomic and galactic structure of things today! And YOU have meddled with the primal forces of nature, and YOU WILL ATONE!
Am I getting through to you, Mr. Beale?
You get up on your little twenty-one inch screen and howl about America and democracy. There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and ITT and AT&T and DuPont, Dow, Union Carbide, and Exxon. Those are the nations of the world today.
When you are a good CEO does you do what is good for the company. He/She is not running a philanthropy. Churches and synagogues and trusts set up by super rich people such as Gates do that.
If you examine performance of H-P stock, during Fiorina’s reign, you will discover that H-P stock fared better than competitors during the worst slump in silicon valley. I don’t know if you recall NASDAQ dropping from 5000+ to 1200 during that period.
What gauge are using to opine that Fiorina’s performance as CEO was terrible?
You do realize that US is a free country where people can do business with any other country? How would you have stopped professor Demming from going to Japan and teach them his theories? Put him in prison?
You are correct. In the old days kings and emperors ruled the roost and could dictate how people should behave.
In case you are not aware, democracies usually do not restrict people from doing their chosen method of doing business.
While I am all for foreign trade to enhance economic activity, I also want a “fair trade”. China keeping their Yuan artificially low is not, IMHO, fair trade.
You basically illustrated my point. Why would the Chinese buy US technology if they do not have technically competent work force to use it? You have to have an idea how backwards the Chinese were, the lack of technicians, engineers and modern managers and yet within fifteen years they were able to operate US machines. Wonder who taught them all that knowledge and why????? US corporations recognized that the Chinese worker if properly trained by US can replace the US worker and push up profits. It has been a long term strategy under the guise of free trade. Banks, Wall Street and corporations already were on the move to change America, only the middle class and working middle class was not aware of it until it was too late. First blue collar jobs went, now service and IT jobs are on the line. The sad part is capitalism did not make China democratic nor it made them an ally of the US. Now China feels they own the 21st Century and her weapons made with US technological transfers will be killing our grandchildren in wars over the Far East and Western Pacific. It is ironic that conservatives can understand the danger of big government and yet do not see the equal danger of big corporations (where a handful of unelected CEO’s) can affect our liberties and economic well being.
And on your point about Japan does not set up manufacturing in other countries, there are scores of manufacturing facilities owned by Japanese outfits in Viet-Nam, Thailand, even China & India. Labor costs in Japan are just too high to make profitable manufacturing of every product.
China is graduating more engineers than United States. They are certainly not lacking in brains or man power.
This type of arrangement gives the edge to Barbara Boxer who can sit back and read a teleprompter for the answers. I wonder if she even had the questions in advance? It all seems fishy to me.
One final comment I have in US hegemony on manufacturing. After WW II, we were the manufacturer for the world. Japn and Germany, our main competitors were bombed out. China was under Mao’s communist rule and floundering. India was run by the socialist policies of prime minister Nehru. Soviet Union with all their vast resources were also floundering because of communism. US was flourishing not because of our government but because of giant corporations such as GM, GE, Westinghouse, RCA etc.
If you study history of world, no one country has ever been the top dog for ever. Circumstances help a certain country prosperous, then others catch up and the decline begins.
I am sure you are aware that for 1000 years India & China had the biggest economies in the world. That era ended in the 17th century. Europe discovered the steam engine and started industrial revolution and leaped ahead.
My point is it is impossible for United States to be the sole manufacturer or have monopoly on technology. The best we can do is adapt the best we can with the changing world.
This demonstrates the importance of knowledge and ethos. If Prof Demming understood what this would do to the US economy as an American he would not have done it. He might wait till some American company may adopt his methods. You do not see Japanese, Korean and Taiwanese professors coming to the US and teach us how to screw their own country. I would not put him in prison, but I would not glorify him in our business schools.
How you cannot understand this really disturbs me. I bet you would be more upset if the QB of your favorite football team taught the opposing team a better way to play football and have them beat your team. But sadly cannot fathom the concept if applied to a nation.
Maybe the 21st Century will belong to Asia and India. At least Asians place loyalty to their mother country while we acknowledge the importance of loyalty only to sports and TV shows.
I guess Boxer is not too anxious to debate with her opponent. She has much more money in campaign funds. And it is blue California. Fiorina can not dictate the terms of debate format.
I could’nt agree more. Republicans are too timid in attacking opponents.
Not if Carly has the guts to say, "Babs, you really should get out of Washington DC once in awhile and visit the California you and your party are destroying."
Actually you may be incorrect. I live on a street called Pacific Rim road. Guess what? All the plants here are owned by Asian companies. And guess what? They are all high tech! More surprise, most workers are Americans! And I am sure the Asian owners are not blind folding the workers/technicians/engineers at the job. So they all must be learning the technologies.
My friend you need to travel around the world. You are going to be shocked how technologically advanced are so many countries out there.
That is another free trade BS. Japan, Korea and Taiwan ran out of blue collar workers because the younger generation was taking advantage of their parents middle class rise to go to school and avoid factory jobs. Taiwan had to triple their factory salaries and still no takers. It was under a blue collar shortage (translates higher wages) made Asian corporations consider lower cost manufacturing nations. Japan, Korea and Taiwan did not go out of their way to screw their blue collar middle class. Rather they created an economy that expanded white collar and high tech jobs, that the children of factory workers with great financial sacrifice by their parents went to college and transitioned upwards and away from the factories. The US corporations did the opposite. They went to low labor nations, set up factories and trained the locals to be ready to do the work that American workers were doing at cut throat wages. Then they used that as a pretext to close our factories. Now they are repeating the cycle with high tech and IT jobs.
Brilliant! It is time that California realizes that they are being ruled by an elite class who milk their position for all its worth and the citizen be damned.
And who upgraded the backwards Maoist schooling system to the point they can develop their own high tech academia to train the huge number of engineers you illustrated? Corporate America. Now why would they do that?? How about cheap high tech labor to replace American high tech labor. A four year old can figure that out.
Now suppose in the near future the US invented a unique product that can propel our economy out of the current funk to dominance like the internet? My question to you is after seeing our jobs decimated by cheap overseas labor in the past, will you share this knowledge with the Chinese??? Indians???? Japanese???? Taiwanese???? Let us have fun with this, how about building factories in China to manufacture the product?
All this (and more) and she remains in power for decades.
And STILL we have useful idiots on FR who insist that her opponent is somehow worse, or unqualified.
I have traveled the world. Many nations are very advanced. Guess who taught them most of the information, the US. We invented the computer, IC, software and many high tech items, and yet we transfered this knowledge to them via academia and joint ventures. Have these Asian countries allowed us to access their markets like the way they access ours. Have trade made them closer allies or vicious competitors? Has US standard of living increased and our society has economic stability that enhances the quality of society??? I say no. The only people who benefit from this arrangement is Wall Street, bankers and CEO’s because the entire world can be used to leverage against the laborers of this nation.
Asian companies do not share their cutting edge technologies to foreign workers. You may work in their companies, but you will never be in their inner management, or intimate technical circles. The only reason they are in the US hiring US workers is because they ran out of high tech workers in their homelands. Asians do business tempered by their national needs. If you think they are globalists and it is okay to be very open to them, you will learn a harsh lesson when their product a near copy of your product hits the market and takes your business away.
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