Posted on 09/08/2010 1:45:28 PM PDT by Copernicus
This report delineates the various atrocities--and their consequences--committed at the hands of a rogue federal government.
The gist of the atrocities committed in the government-initiated massacre can be summed up in the words of the FBI Deputy Assistant Director Danny Coulson, who wrote the following memo at the time:
'Memo: OPR 004477 Something to Consider 1. Charge against Weaver is Bull $@it. 2. No one saw Weaver do any shooting. 3. Vicki has no charges against her. 4. Weaver's defense. He ran down the hill to see what dog was barking at. Some guys in camys shot his dog. Started shooting at him. Killed his son. Harris did the shooting [of Degan]. He [Weaver] is in pretty strong legal position."'
(Excerpt) Read more at examiner.com ...
“JMO”. Well, at least in that you’re correct.
Come on old man, you can do better.
You know there are idiots who are useful to alot of causes like white extremist groups as weaver was.
Do you have a "Down with ZOG" t shirt?
It's hard to know what is is you claim I am denying since you haven't pointed to anything and made that accusation. For someone who has gotten numerous facts wrong, weak excuses notwithstanding, you have yet to hear what facts I have gotten wrong.
LOL Im not the only one dude. Way more think like I do than like you.
...I have yet to hear...
imeanttotype.com (snort)
While federal officials have claimed that the violent confrontation between the Weavers and the government began when the Weavers ambushed federal marshals, the report tells a very different story. A team of six U.S. marshals, split into two groups, trespassed onto Mr. Weaver’s land on Aug. 21, 1992. One of the marshals threw rocks at the Weaver’s cabin to see how much noise was required to agitate the Weaver’s dogs. A few minutes later, Randy Weaver, Kevin Harris, and 13-year-old Sammy Weaver came out of the cabin and began following their dogs. Three U.S. marshals were soon tearing through the woods.
At one point, U.S. Marshal Larry Cooper “told the others that it was [’expletive deleted’] for them to continue running and that he did not want to ‘run down the trail and get shot in the back.’ He urged them to take up defensive positions. The others agreed.... William Degan ... took a position behind a stump....”
As Sammy Weaver and Kevin Harris came upon the marshals, gunfire erupted. Sammy was shot in the back and killed while running away from the scene (probably by Marshal Cooper, according to the report), and Marshal Degan was killed by Mr. Harris. The jury concluded that Mr. Harris’s action was legitimate self-defense; the Justice report concluded it was impossible to know who shot first.
Several places in the report deal with the possibility of a government coverup. After the firefight between the marshals and the Weavers and Mr. Harris, the surviving marshals were taken away to rest and recuperate. The report observed, “We question the wisdom of keeping the marshals together at the condominium for several hours, while awaiting interviews with the FBI. Isolating them in that manner created the appearance and generated allegations that they were fabricating stories and colluding to cover up the true circumstances of the shootings.”
http://www.stormfront.org/ruby.htm
I’m not a dude and you have no idea what I think. It’s just more assumptions on your part with an equal absence of support.
But bang on, you’ll get it right even if by chance alone.
I’ll let you get back to your research now.
Deny as you might you are claiming its okay to break laws like he did everyone does it. The laws he broke were tax evasion, resisting arrest, child endangerment and firearms violations etc. Things like that get Johny Laws attention.
I agree the government used extremely aggressive force when it didnt have to at all. But after pulling a weapon on another officer, his son shooting an agent,etc, he knew things had escalated dramatically and chose to have a standoff.
Not wise.
Like I said, if he was alone its one thing, but to drag ones family in is another all together.
You conveniently overlook his extremist beliefs, extremist acquaintances, and his total disregard for any law. its the reason he moved there, to surround himself with like minded people.
My whole point is Weaver was a not any hero. He paid a terrible price yes, but bear some fault to say the least.
In what world do you shoot people over ALLEGED tax evasion?
BTW the shotgun was ruled to be legal in a court of law. The a$$clowns of the ATF could not even get that right.
Randy could of been brought in peacefully if the ATF and Marshall were not all macho. The local Sheriff even tried to get them to let him deal with it. I asked Randy point blank if he would of surrendered to the Sheriff and he said “yes”.
Next thing you know we will be burning women and kids to death over religion - oh wait.......
And Im the joke. Put your fatigues on and march away man but it doesnt make Weaver a hero in this, period.
BTW I may be slow on the response Im working on another project with my son.
The shooting wasnt started because he had evaded taxes and you know it. It was because he was known to be armed and threatening, so the first agents came armed, then after that killing and the killing of the boy it went ridiculously out of hand.
Either way, he surrendered in the end didnt he, so much for a blaze of glory. But not till he had a part in getting his wife and son killed.
I have watched Shatner's show now and I was right that the above was not a quote from Sara Weaver. I was wrong that her dad Randy was at the cabin but right that he was not with his son Samuel, Kevin Harris and the dog. He was not fired on at that time. Randy Weaver was not shot in the initial shootout which only involved U.S. Marshall Degan, Keven Harris, Samuel Weaver and the dog.
According to narrative in the show it was Harris that shot Degan not Samuel but Samuel also fired on the hidden position of Degan. I have my doubts about the accuracy of that given other accounts. So, the above, quoted from the article, is mish-mash of true and false statements that didn't come from the show.
One thing Shatner's program didn't mention is that the government was at least partially at fault for Randy Weaver's failure to appear in court due to putting the wrong court date on the subpoena.
Weaver was not convicted on the charge.
So BD are you a LEO or one of those who all ways sees the LEOs as in the right. Come to think on it , that would make you a progressive.
Once again you are making a false accusation against me and again you will not post anything I have said to support it because none exists.
Things like that get Johny Laws attention.
But doesn't excuse opening fire without provocation which the LEOs did three separate times in this incident which is the only point I have made.
...his son shooting an agent,...
After being fired on from concealment without provocation.
You conveniently overlook his extremist beliefs, extremist acquaintances, and his total disregard for any law. its the reason he moved there, to surround himself with like minded people.
No, I'm just not using it as an excuse for three unprovoked shootings resulting in two murders and two others shot.
My whole point is Weaver was a not any hero.
A rather pointless point since I said no one here is making him out to be a hero.
He paid a terrible price yes, but bear some fault to say the least.
Criminal behavior has the reasonable consequences that come with the legal application of force to bring them to justice. Not one thing a criminal does becomes the cause of criminal behavior on the part of the authorities. That is a false view of cause and effect and responsibility for one's actions.
That is an amazingly humorous statement coming from you. You have deemed Randy Weaver, Vicki Weaver, Kevin Harris, Bo Gritz and all the government agents as unreliable witnesses. Essentially you have ruled out everyone who was actually there as credible.
Yet you have not named one person as a source for your statements. Not one.
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