Posted on 09/04/2010 12:52:43 PM PDT by EternalVigilance
I doubt that most people would be shocked to learn that sometimes the influence of power can interfere with and even derail the course of justice in our legal system. Behind the scenes, a phone call from a powerful politician, or a corporate mogul often affects the actions or judgments of people whose personal ambitions they are in a position to help or hinder. Usually though, people giving heed to such considerations have enough sense to cloak what they do with words or actions that give their corruption at least the appearance of probity. Maybe its the tribute that vice renders to virtue. Maybe its nothing more than self-serving prudence (the mask of honesty that facilitates corruption.)
However, when court officers conclude that such hypocrisy is no longer worth the effort, things are pretty far gone. The video featured with this post focuses on the recent decision by Col. Denise R. Lind, the military judge charged with presiding over the court martial of Lt. Col. Terry Lakin. People who still care about American justice will recognize the facts as confirmation that America has passed ‘far gone’ and is approaching the point of no return.
(Excerpt) Read more at loyaltoliberty.com ...
“If you honestly believe that then how can you see any other honorable course for yourself but to resign?”
My oath was to the constitution, not the president. How is my resigning going to cause the constitution to be upheld? If any should resign, or face prosecution, it is the JAG judge making assinine rulings. Also, don’t you dare question my honour when you defend dishonorable behavior by the POTUS in not being open with his records. An honourable person would immediately provide full disclosure when their past or integrity was being questioned. At least that is my opinion of what would be the honourable course of action for POTUS Obama.
LTC Lakin would never have refused the order IF POTUS Obama had produced the records requested. IF I have any dishonour it is because I don’t have LTC Lakin’s courage.
I said I was in “jeopardy”....meaning that I could be prosecuted if orders I issued, as a representative of the POTUS through the chain of command are ruled invalid due to an invalid highest source. For that matter the entire country is in jeopardy.
Some issues, like whether POTUS Obama is NBC when his father was not a U.S. citizen must be dealt with by the Supreme Court which ultimately (right or wrong) interprets
the COTUS. However, the other issues regarding irregularities in POTUS Obama’s citizenship status in the past because of place of birth or claims made after 18...they are issues that a military court can and should examine. The court cannot rule on the POTUS’s eligibility, but the members of the court, upon viewing evidence, may decide that LTC Lakin acted upon reasonably doubt and should be acquited. This is ultimately the nature of the Court Martial. LTC Lakin attempted to get confirmation of the POTUS’ status through his chain of command, and was told....”we don’t do that.” He then refused a deployment order based upon a desire to get his questions answered. It is his choice of defense...he should be allowed to use it. The members of his panel will then decide if he acted in good faith or not.
>>What relevant information would you expect to see on the long form that isn’t on the short form?<<
How about the correct race? It states on the fake colb on line that Obama’s race is African. African is not a race and surely was not in 1961. All real birth certificates at that time listed Negro as the race.
Also, hospital, Doctors name.
>>As he can in any court, and Lakin is free to produce anything he wants. But he is not free to go on a fishing expedition and subpoena anything and everything when it isn’t relevant to the charges he’s facing. And two senior JAG officers have both concluded that Obama’s information is irrelevant to the offenses Lakin is charges with.<<
Actually, under the “innocent until proven guilty” system the State has to prove that Obama is legally elligible to issue orders as POTUS. The State contends that the orders were legal and has to prove it.
It’s paramount to evey defense lawyer in the nation to make sure that happens.
“So why should Lakin be any different?”
Because his is a test case. Unless he is allowed a complete defense, to include compeling the POTUS to release information to the court, then justice has not been served and doubt remains. However, IF the records, fully examined, show no reason for LTC Lakin’s assertions, then the issue is resolved in regard to the military system. IF he gets a trully fair and impartial trial with all evidence considered, and is convicted...the precident is set.
Good luck getting anywhere with that.
The 0bastard toadying suckups all did a happy dance once the she-judge denied him discovery. They’re happy that justice was denied.
Tell me how a judge can constitutionally relieve Hussein of his Presidential duties. Try to be accurate and cite the specific articles in the Constitution because judging from some of your outrageous statements I doubt whether accuracy is your primary concern.
All of a sudden this Jacquerie has been all over these threads toadying for 0bastard and insulting good freepers.
Nonstop.
1) Obama proves he is a natural born citizen by releasing **common** documents. Cost: 15 minutes of a secretary's time and about $50.
or....
2) Send out private and tax pay attorneys to several states to fight the release of common documents that unanointed Americans routinely provide for many reasons? Cost: Mega bucks ( private and tax-funded.)
Conclusion: A real, natural born, American president would be **HONORED** to prove with the best evidence that he was indeed eligible to be president and Commander in Chief.
Conclusion: A real, natural born American president would **never** let this go so far as court martial of a decorated officer who had **POLITELY** asked for proof. A foreign born usurper would.
Hilarious! Where do you do standup comedy?
Thanks for the ping. I’m looking forward to reading the entire article.
Did not Obama issue the order as CIC to send the additional troops to Afganistan? The State says it was a legal order and has to prove guilt of Lakin in not following that order.
Ask a defense lawyer.
“Don’t be too easily lured by the “do something” concept. It is not a problem a military outside of central america should get involved with. Hussein will be CIC until he isn’t. No judge can relieve him of his duties.”
I am not advocating that a military court “relieve” the POTUS of his job. That must be done in accordance with the COTUS...we are not a banana republic as you correctly imply. However, for LTC Lakin to receive a fair and impartial defense of his actions, he needs to be able to review and present evidence (if any exists) abouts irregularities in the status of POTUS Obama. Upon reviewing evidence received, the panel of officers on the court may decide (however improbably many think this is) that LTC Lakin acted in good faith and should be acquited of the charges against him.
Should the court acquit him, it is an issue that most certainly will be appealed for review. Eventually it could go before the SCOTUS where “finally” we might get a definitive interpretation of the COTUS.
Additionally, IF LTC Lakin is allowed to fully “discovery” of evidence without limitations and even after review of the evidence the panel finds him guilty...then a precident is also set....especially if reviewed and upheld.
Either way we get some degree of resolution...it won’t satisfy all, but it will many. However, this ALL hinges on full discovery being availabe for LTC Lakin’s defense. To stop such discovery only taints the findings of the court. Actually, it just becomes, in my view, a kangaroo show court. It won’t help discipline, and it makes the Army look bad. I get upset when my Army looks bad.
Uhhhh. We do. It's a judgment call. If a....errr....officer, such as yourself tells me to mow down civilians, I can tell you to kiss my butt and I'll see you at the court marshal. You have obviously never served in the military. We aren't the pakistanis.......we don't just do what we're told....
What chaos?
There would be one initial case that would then be settled... and then any and all further cases would be thrown out due to the prior decisions made in the original.
She's trolling......her BS is deep. "Imagine the chaos if every service member had standing to challenge the legality of every order issued by every senior in his chain of command."
LOL! Apparently Jacquerie has never heard of Vietnam....
Here’s the process to remove a President or a person occupying the office of the President:
1. House conducts an investigation of presidential misconduct and votes to impeach.
2. House sends its findings to the Senate.
3. Senate conducts a trial on issues of whether the President or the person occupying the Office of the President has committed crimes THAT INVOLVED USING PRESIDENTIAL POWERS.
4. Senate returns verdict of guilty or innocent. If guilty, the person occupying the Office of President is deposed and leaves office.
What you are implying is that Obama can be found guilty by some lower court finding that he was never eligble to be President and hid the facts of his ineligibility there by defrauding numerous parties, people and agencies, and as a result of all these ‘judicial’ findings of fraud and malfeasance, that he should leave or be removed because he was never eligible. And then there is the issue of prosecuting all those that aided and abetted his alleged fraud.
But in all these dicussions there is a requirement to follow procedures. Step by step a procedure must be followed to arrive at a finding of FRAUD. He’s not a fraud until a court or Congress determines he is. We can have incontrovertable proof that he is a fraud from a court but until Congress make it official, he remains insulated.
A Senate trial must convict him because until they do he is still the President. No lower court can ever have the legal authority to remove him, all they can do is to find him guilty in a process involving the judiciary. But to physically remove him requires Congress no matter what his crime.
Now in our ideal world where people of power in courts and in government find him guilty according to Constitutional procedures, Congress would quickly take a court finding, confirm its findings, impeach him, cause him to be removed, prosecute his accomplices or those that were otherwise derelict, conduct lengthy exhaustive inquiries into strengthening certification criteria and leave him to the courts to follow up on his criminal infractions. Tall order there but doable.
But he still needs to be impeached because impeachment involves a trial in the Senate that returns a verdict of innocent or guilty, and until that verdict is returned he remains officially the POTUS.
Yes. Duplicity that quickly erodes into obvious troll-nastiness.
So you by yourself have deemed the order was 'lawful'? Because the brass at the Pentagon have not opposed the order?
So in your mind the Chain of Command stops at the Pentagon. But you miss the point. You said a court can't remove a President and that is true, but the findings of a court can be used in impeachment. So your point was short and incomplete as if somehow it rendered the military proceeding futile. Your 'point' shows you lack knowledge of how one court proceeding can affect other proceedings, hence my observation of your inexperience combined with a houghty attitude as pointing to someone that has a chip on their shoulder.
To determine whether or not disobedience was legitimate requires 'examining evidence' of the lawfulness of the order. At issue is what evidence is admissible, is it the notion that the Chain of Command ends at the Pentagon or the fact that it ends at the Oval Office.
Should a future hearing reverse this judge's ruling and allow the case to compel documents and testimony for the defense, then those documents and testimony can certainly be used in hearings of Congress. So court's findings with regard to any evidence of Obama's eligibility are important.
The courts are not an investigative arm of Congress.
Who said they were? Whatever a court may find and establish is public and can certainly be used as evidence in any other proceeding.
If the House next year thinks as I do that Hussein if of foreign birth, then Congress can and should investigate.
Based on what? A rumor? Until there is some direct evidence that Obama is ineligible, Congress will have no legitimate power to investigate him. That is what is frustrating in the present case, that the possible evidence can't be released. For Congress to initiate investigative hearings, there has to be 'probable cause', 'reasonable suspicion'. Bill Clinton was not investigatged until evidence surfaced of his corruption and philandering from the Paula Jones LAWSUIT.
Our civilian courts are way too political as it is and I do not wish to see military courts go that way as well.
Are you kidding? That's the whole point of what just happened, that the UCMJ was not followed in allowing the defense to access, call, compel and submit all evidence that can be used on their behalf. The decision was a political one to avoid an 'embarassment' of the President.
LTC Lakin chose a self destructive avenue to vent his doubts. The military courts are not going to do the job of Congress.
Self-destructive? He's a physician and he has a retirement coming. He is going to be fine and especially with his elevation in the media, he will be better off. He will receive a dishonorable discharge or an honorable one with prejudice. Either event will have minimal bearing on his future health and happiness. I am certain he knows this to be the case.
But for you to come out swinging with the 'Self-Destructive' schtick shows you are an opinionated judgemental borderline troll. Your feigned reference to believing that Obama is of foreign birth while at the sametime waving a weak inaccurate remark that you don't want the military courts to become 'politicized' as the civilian courts are, coupled with a faux air of credibility speaks to someone that wants to see their words posted on the internet without regard to the logical content of such postings.
Let's.
"1) Obama proves he is a natural born citizen by releasing **common** documents. Cost: 15 minutes of a secretary's time and about $50."
He has done so. He's released his birth certificate.
"2) Send out private and tax pay attorneys to several states to fight the release of common documents that unanointed Americans routinely provide for many reasons? Cost: Mega bucks ( private and tax-funded.)"
He hasn't done that at all. He's initiated no lawsuits, and hasn't fought the release of any documents. What his lawyers have done is filed routine motions to dismiss in response to being sued, and those motions have all ultimately won.
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