Posted on 08/13/2010 1:51:05 PM PDT by lbryce
A Florida pastor is speaking out in defense of his congregation’s controversial plan to burn copies of Koran on the ninth anniversary of the Sept. 11 terror attacks, MyFoxOrlando.com reported.
"Things like 9-11, Fort Hood, and the honor killings... these are possibly not isolated incidents," Dove World Outreach Center pastor Terry Jones said. "These are things that, if we don't stand up now, they can increase."
The Gainesville, Fla. church made headlines worldwide in July when it announced the plans on its Facebook page.
The event had received thousands of "Like" recommendations by users of the social networking site, but had also been attacked with a number of threatening messages posted on the page and received corresponding anti-Islam rants.
Jones — who has written a book titled "Islam is of The Devil" and sells T-shirts bearing the same message — says his life is being threatened after getting international attention for his plans.
"We have thought about it," the pastor said, "about the danger in holding the controversial event, and we realize that whenever we made this step, that this kind of thing could happen. But we feel it's that important, and the times call for some kind of radical measure in standing up.”
(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...
Thanks for the prompt and courteous reply. While you have exhibited the ability to divine my thought processes and character through a simple 14 word post, I don’t possess that talent; therefore further discussion would be useless. Have a good day.
Not true either. ALL the first tens of thousands of Christians, before they even had a name for it, were Jews.
Now, we have some PEOPLE today, who just happen to observe SOME of the old traditions, and they are called Jews or Jewish, but that hardly can do anything but be called an ongoing exception.
Gentiles, that is non Jews, were the last to be given the Word. So it IS a Jewish religion. Just some choose to be remain blinded until the end. Nothing more than that.
You are correct. The advocates of book-burning on this thread are in good company: Nazis, Communists, Saudis... Welcome to new America, where book-burning is advocated and practiced.
Jesus will be so proud of you.
Not at all: I responded to what you said and did not say. One would think that a traditional American would shudder upon hearing of calls to burn not only books but their readers as well, of nuking entire countries for the sin of professing a non-Christian belief. You did not. You were instead attracted to a secondary issue of whether Nazi and Communist book-burners enjoyed government approval.
And you are not alone: is there anyone on this thread who found this to be patently racist, bigoted and unAmerican?
I understand how unpleasant it may have been to read my previous post. But what am I supposed to feel? "Conservatives" on this forum routinely bash capitalism without even vague understanding of how it works. Just say "Goldman Sacks" and watch the fireworks --- content of what is said does not matter. On this very thread, someone openly professes racism and religious intolerance, and, instead of being appalled, the entire thread of "conservatives" is cheering the bigot!
Like Nero who was purportedly laughing when Rome burned, conservatives are laughing as America is burning. So, please forgive me for pointing out your indifference to bigotry and racism. I don't know how can be done without saying what it is.
You too have a good day. Perhaps we'll have a better discussion on some other thread.
Not at all: I responded to what you said and did not say. One would think that a traditional American would shudder upon hearing of calls to burn not only books but their readers as well, of nuking entire countries for the sin of professing a non-Christian belief. You did not. You were instead attracted to a secondary issue of whether Nazi and Communist book-burners enjoyed government approval.
And you are not alone: is there anyone on this thread who found this to be patently racist, bigoted and unAmerican?
I understand how unpleasant it may have been to read my previous post. But what am I supposed to feel? "Conservatives" on this forum routinely bash capitalism without even vague understanding of how it works. Just say "Goldman Sacks" and watch the fireworks --- content of what is said does not matter. On this very thread, someone openly professes racism and religious intolerance, and, instead of being appalled, the entire thread of "conservatives" is cheering the bigot!
Like Nero who was purportedly laughing when Rome burned, conservatives are laughing as America is burning. So, please forgive me for pointing out your indifference to bigotry and racism. I don't know how can be done without saying what it is.
You too have a good day. Perhaps we'll have a better discussion on some other thread.
Count on me to supply the matches and lighter fluid.
When they allow Temples and Christian Churches in Iran, Iraq, Egypt, etc then they can build a terrorist training center at ground zero.
When you have turned both cheeks and are slapped it’s time to kick some ass. Better to die standing up fighting than on your knees begging for your life.
I have a question. Men that blow themselves up in an effort to kill innocent people get the treat of 72 virgins in his heaven. What do women get for doing the same? Are the nag gang following this?
re: “Exodus 21:12 He that smiteth a man, so that he die, shall be surely put to death.
Exodus 21:15 And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death.
Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
These are just 3 of hundreds of very clear commandments and rules. What part of these could possibly need clarification? Or are you suggesting God’s attitudes towards sins evolve over time.”
I agree with you that God’s attitude towards sin does not “evolve” over time. I think murder, assault of one’s own parents, and homosexuality are still repugnant to God.
However, I’m sure you realize that not all the laws mentioned in the Old Testament were intended as universal - that is, for all nations to follow. The laws given by God to Moses were part of the covenant God made with the people of Israel - not the rest of the world. Some of these laws are applicable to all, but some are not.
Israel was to be a theocratic nation - that is, a nation established upon the laws of God for its civil and moral daily life. These laws were to be followed by Israel in order to keep them “different” from the other nations around them, and to keep them from practicing the same immoral practices of the nations around them.
Some of the punishments for disobedience seem harsh to us, but it was part of the Covenant agreement that Israel be “holy” and separate in behavior from the pagan nations around them.
Another point that should be noted is that many of the Old Testament’s laws, rules, that seem odd to us, had to do with the “sacrifical”, “tabernacle” or even “temple” system of the worship of God. I admit that many of these things are hard to understand, but it is my opinion (for what it’s worth) that God was teaching His people that we come to Him on His terms - not ours.
As time went on, even in the Old Testament, there were those leaders and individuals who began to realize that following these rules and regulations were not all there was to following/pleasing God.
For example, David in Psalm 51:16-17 said: “You do not delight in sacrifice, or I would bring it; You do not take pleasure in burnt offerings. The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart, O God, You will not despise.”
And again in Isaiah 1:10-12: “The multitude of your sacrifices— what are they to me?” says the LORD. “I have more than enough of burnt offerings, of rams and the fat of fattened animals; I have no pleasure in the blood of bulls and lambs and goats.
In Hosea 6:6 is says: “For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings.”
Also in Habakkuk 2:4 - “but the righteous will live by his faith”
And last, in Jeremiah 31:31-34 - “The time is coming,” declares the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. It will not be like the covenant I made with their forefathers when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to them,” declares the LORD. “This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time,” declares the LORD. “I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest,” declares the LORD. “For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more.”
My point?? Though God’s attitude toward sin may not change, the manner in which He deals with it has - As it says in Jeremiah 31, God brought about a New Covenant. Christians believe the Jesus is the fullfillment of that New Covenant - not just with Israel, but with all mankind.
God saw that we could never follow all the rules and regulations to achieve “righteousness” before Him - that’s why He had to send us a Savior - He, Himself, could be the only one who could remove the guilt of our sin - that’s who Christians believe Jesus is - God in the flesh. God paid the price of our guilt Himself because we couldn’t.
What I’m trying to say is, just as God began to deal with sin in a different way with the New Covenant, over time, during the Christian era of influence upon western civilization - western law began to apply punishment for certain crimes/sins in different ways as well.
Even so, the New Testament teaches that the purpose of government is to protect the innocent and punish those who do evil, to provide law and order (Romans 13:1-7), but how that punishment is carried out has gradually been tempered by the Christian influence of “redemption” and “forgiveness” that has been shown us by God.
I guess what I’m trying to say to you is that this is a very deep subject, and just saying the teachings in the Bible and the Koran are equal in what they advocate is simply incorrect.
First, it was not unpleasant to read your post. If anything, it was amusing. Life is too short to be bothered by words. Second, if you are going to psychoanalyze me, it would probably be helpful if you had some actual facts rather than just your “feelings”. To help your case study I offer the fact that I don’t like flag burning, book burning, protest in general, bigotry, racism, or religious intolerance nor am I impressed by those who carelessly use such charges for whatever reason. I strongly believe in individual freedom, including the right to be wrong and I don’t believe you, I, nor anyone else has a monopoly on righteousness.
Obviously, you take this subject much more seriously than I. Please accept my apologies for not giving you or your rant the attention you no doubt believe you deserve.
I do not believe burning the Koran is a proper way to deal with radical Islam.
The power of the Gospel is sufficient, and the destruction of another religion’s holy books really does smack of fear, not confidence.
At least that is my opinion.
What would happen if someone slaughtered a hog on the proposed building site in NYC?
You clearly fail to grasp the gravity of the situation being faced by the West.
PER THEIR “HOLY BOOK,” THESE FOLKS WANT US EITHER CONVERTED TO ISLAM, TAXED TO DEATH IF WE ARE FOUND TO BE “USEFUL” TO THEM (I.E. SLAVES) OR DEAD.
If there is some part of that you don’t fully understand, please refer to the video at the link below?
As a person who has spent lengthy time studying Islam I can tell you this video is one of the best I have seen…it’s short and to the point and all those points are dead on!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ib9rofXQl6w&feature=player_embedded
Funny. Who is failing to grasp what here, Dick?
What would Jesus do?
Hint: I can’t see the Son of God reaching for the petrol and small-minded fanatical intolerance.
Enthusiasts like this are the best adverts other religions will ever have.
We are at war with Islam. At least this pastor understands that. We have the much of the establishment forgiving 9/11 and 3,000 murdered people in the name of Allah. Burning Korans is not offensive when the Koran blesses this bloody political cult bent on destroying our way of life. People need to be aroused against Islam and we need to stop Muslim immigration NOW.
Watch the video???
Nice, but I can’t hear the Son of GOd espousing that blinkered philosophy...
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