Woman Kicked Off Flight After Accusing Pilot of Drinking

NBC Los Angeles ^ | 8-3-10 | TARA WALLIS-FINESTONE

[Atlas Sneezed]

A Toluca Lake woman was recently kicked off a Delta Airlines flight after reporting that she thought she had smelled alcohol on the captain's breath.

Cynthia Angel said the incident occurred on July 19 as she was trying to travel home to Southern California from Georgia. She had just spent two weeks visiting her son, an actor, who was shooting a movie near Atlanta.

Angel, 51, said the trouble occurred after she and three other passengers had a brief conversation with one of the pilots of Delta Airlines Flight 2355. She learned later that the pilot was actually the captain of the flight.

"The flight had been delayed almost an hour," said Angel. "We were in the jetway waiting to get on the flight when the pilot walked by us and I jokingly said, 'Boy you had been here a long time.'"

Angel said the captain spoke to her and the three other passengers. After he walked away, said Angel, another passenger asked if they had smelled alcohol on the pilot's breath.

"A gentleman standing behind me asked, 'Did anyone smell that? It smelled a little like vodka,'" said Angel. "We all agreed that he did smell alcohol, but we didn't know if he had been drinking or what we should do about it."

Angel said she volunteered to talk with the head flight attendant once aboard the plane.

"I told her that I didn't know what protocol is, but I believe I smelled alcohol on one of the pilots' breath," said Angel.

Angel said the flight attendant immediately talked to another pilot who was in the cockpit getting ready for departure.

"He asked me to come inside the cockpit, where he shut the door and asked me about my conversation with the pilot in the jetway," said Angel. "I told him what I had told the flight attendant; that other passengers and I thought we had smelled alcohol on the pilot's breath."

Angel said the pilot informed her that it was the captain of the flight who spoke with her. He assured her that the captain had not been drinking.

"He said he had been with the captain for several hours before the flight," said Angel. "I was satisfied with the pilot's explanation, thanked him and returned to my seat."

But Angel said that 20 minutes later, a Delta Airlines manager came aboard the flight and asked her to follow him off the plane.

"The manager wanted to hear what I had told the flight attendant," said Angel. "He then told me the captain took a test that proved he did not have anything to drink."

Angel said the manager then thanked her and she returned to her seat on the plane. At this point, she thought it was over.

"About 20 minutes later, the Delta manager returned with a female colleague and they asked me to gather my belongings and follow them off the flight," said Angel. "I was so embarrassed."

Angel said she followed them back into the airport. She was lead into a nearby office where she was told again that the pilot had tested negatively for alcohol.

"They told me they take these accusations very seriously and that the captain and his crew did not want me on his flight," said Angel.

Angel said Delta gave her meal and hotel vouchers, and said she could come back in the morning to take another flight back to Los Angeles.

"All I did was voice my concerns," said Angel. "I wasn't a threat to anyone and for them to remove me was wrong."

"I understand airlines have to have protocol," said Mark Silverman, Angel's Beverly Hills-based attorney who Angel contacted to look into the incident.

Silverman said his office has called and written Delta Airlines for a response and to ask the airline to open an investigation into the incident.

"She was just trying to be a good citizen. You'd think Delta would thank her for her concern," he said.

NBCLA also contacted Delta Airlines for comment. Susan Elliott from Delta's corporate communications office sent this response via e-mail: "Once we have reviewed Mrs. Angel's letter and investigated her claims, we will follow-up with her on our findings."

"Making drinking accusations against pilots is a serious matter," said Ross Aimer, CEO of Aviation Experts, LLC.

"If you think someone is drunk, you owe it to yourself, your loved ones and other passengers to report it," said Aimer, who is also a retired United Airlines captain. "However, in this case, because the captain had not been drinking, Delta made the right decision by asking her to leave the plane."

Aimer explains that in situations like this, flights usually end up delayed or canceled because the captain will take himself off the flight.

"It's an either you or me situation," said Aimer. "She had to go because the captain has his crew and hundreds of other passengers to think about."

Aimer adds that if he found himself in a similar situation, he'd do the same thing.

"The issue of pilots and drinking has become a very big deal, and accusations like that could end your career," Aimer said.

[CodeToad]

“Open your smart mouth, and you won’t be proceding to your destination.”

My attitude is that of safety. It is sad that as an airline pilot you believe safety is of no concern and worthy of tossing a passenger off a flight. As that passenger with a legitimate concern that got tossed, I can guarantee you your flight will not leave the ground and you will not be behind the controls until you pass a wizzquizz. Guranteed.

Your smart mouth would end up costing you your career.

As far as pilots not being drunks, get real. They drink like fish.

[CodeToad]

“I take it you are not a commercial pilot. Different story.
“

How so? Please be specific.

[CodeToad]

““She now is the one that can sue the airline..”

Sue for what?
“

Damages, idiot. She lost her flight, which no doubt cost her something else such as a vacation or business trip. You don’t get to act like a jackass with immunity.

[CodeToad]

“s this women discovered, we take accusations like hers very seriously.”

BS. You take it seriously because you don’t want to lose the license, not because of safety. If safety were the issue her legitimate concerns would have been addressed in a professional, not a juvenile, manner.

[CodeToad]

“When passengers start doing this on their own. you can kiss goodbye ever arriving at your destination.”

Then stop drinking. You just said because of business concerns safety should of no concern. You just said in order to prevent any delays in flight schedules any concerns over drunk pilots must be ignored.

You should not be a pilot of any aircraft.

[Tzfat]

As far as pilots not being drunks, get real. They drink like fish

I can assure you that I know more airline pilots than you. Do many airline pilots drink? Of course. Do they do it within the required hours before flying (most airlines have a minimum of 12 hours), rarely if at all. When they do, they are turned in by fellow pilots, and they are forced to retire, fired, and even jailed. We take it very seriously. As this thread has indicated, there are a lot of misconceptions out there - and your "feelings" (not facts) are precisely the problem.

I am in airline Flight Operations management, particularly in regulatory and safety compliance. I am an FAA examiner as well. Safety is my job. It is my job to make sure that pilots at my airline operate safely. It is not the job of passengers to accuse pilots of drinking on duty.

The idea that a passenger would accuse a pilot of drinking on the job, and then to get on the aircraft is absurd. My advice to you: if you THINK you smell alcohol, get off the airplane.

[DaveTesla]

“her legitimate concerns would have been addressed in a professional, not a juvenile, manner.”

Since there appears to be three passengers that concurred about the
alcohol smell I absolutely agree with you. This smacks of retaliation.

Because of the hostile attitudes of airline personnel
I fly as little as possible. When I do fly I try to fly on Southwest.
If the management of Southwest can get their personnel to be polite
why are the other airlines so hostile?

[DaveTesla]

"Open your smart mouth, and you won't be proceding to your destination."

"I am in airline Flight Operations management,"

Figures. No wonder the airlines need bailout's from the taxpayers.
Rotten service. Rotten attitudes.

[Tzfat]

You just said because of business concerns safety should of no concern. You just said in order to prevent any delays in flight schedules any concerns over drunk pilots must be ignored.

Now you are just being shrill. Safety is not the issue. False accusation is.

Now, for some more facts: in the airline pilot community, there is a profound social stigma against drinking within the minimum hours before flying. In the past few years where pilots have been caught doing it, as a community we have not only condemned it, we have ridiculed those pilots and their airlines. Our safety net for catching offenders is likely far better than any other regulated industry. Every flight deck has two pilots. If one pilot smells something on the other, they refuse to fly with them - because flying with someone who has been drinking is career-ending. Each aircraft has at least 3 flight attendants. They are in close proximity to the flight crew and would never fly with someone who has been drinking.

So, let's compare notes, shall we? In your job, do you get alcohol and drug testing every 6 months, and random every 24 months? Do have written regulations that specify exactly how many hours after ANY drink before you can even show up at the airport in uniform? Do you have co-workers who would turn you in at the drop of a hat because to keep it quiet would be career-ending?

Driving laws in the U.S. have blood alcohol limits. FAA regulations permit ZERO blood alcohol - and a minimum of 9 hours after ANY alcohol. Most airlines have a minimum of 12 hours.

[Tzfat]

When I do fly I try to fly on Southwest. If the management of Southwest can get their personnel to be polite why are the other airlines so hostile

LOL! Try accusing your pilot on your next SWA flight of having alcohol on their breath. Report back how nice Southwest was to you. They will politely delay the aircraft while a new crew is called out, or they will politely ask you to leave the aircraft after the accused pilots (always both) are tested.

[Northern Yankee]

If you notice my comments were all in jest.

Jimminey Crickets... I usually don't accuse my pilots of drinking.

Cheers!

[DaveTesla]

"LOL! Try accusing your pilot on your next SWA flight of having alcohol on their breath. Report back how nice Southwest was to you."

On the contrary, I have voiced safety concerns to Southwest
personel on several occasions and they were polite,
professional and took action.

[Tzfat]

You would receive the same response from me for voicing safety concerns.

Accuse them of a dereliction if duty and your experience would be different.

[toldyou]

“I take it you are not a commercial pilot. Different story.
“
How so? Please be specific.”

For one thing...you appear to be unprofessional, uneducated, and immature in your comments.

[MarkL]

"Pilots Gone Wild"

Mark

[Tzfat]

No wonder the airlines need bailout's from the taxpayers

You are under the mistaken impression that U.S. airlines stay aloft because of "bailouts from the taxpayers." Not true. NOT ONE U.S. airline has received as much as a dollar from the taxpayer. Airlines have been left to fend for themselves (as it should be). No bailouts. Not one red cent.

After 9/11, Congress backed loans to several airlines, but the airlines still had to find the financing, and every single penny was paid back within 2 years.

As an airline employee, I owe the TAXPAYER nothing. As an airline employee, I owe must customers my job. That is why we take baseless accusations about "drunk pilots" very seriously.

You throw around baseless accusations that end careers, and ruin our livlihood... with no reprecussions? Shame on you. 99.99% of all U.S. airline pilots are more professional than can conceive. And the truth be known, you trust your lives with us each time you fly. Maybe what you really hate is people that have the RIGHT to throw you off their plane? As the Captain, FAA regulations control everything I do... but along with that responsibility comes a RIGHT. Once the airplane leaves the gate, what I say GOES. Period. That is what maritime law says, and it is what the law of the air says. The Captain is the final authority. Period.

BTW, you won't be successful suing an airline pilot for doing his job.

[toldyou]

Great posts, Tzfat!

[DaveTesla]

“You are under the mistaken impression that U.S. airlines stay aloft because of “bailouts from the taxpayers.” Not true. NOT ONE U.S. airline has received as much as a dollar from the taxpayer. Airlines have been left to fend for themselves (as it should be). No bailouts. Not one red cent. “"

In 2001 President Bush signed into law the Air Transportation Safety and Stabilization Act.
The Airlines guzzeled 15 BILLION dollars worth of bailouts.

In 2003 Congress Came to the rescue with another 3.6 BILLION
in monies.
Airline Bailouts II: This Approach Won't Fly
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Commentary/2003/05/Airline-Bailouts-II-This-Approach-Wont-Fly

Total Cost 18.6 Billion
Source : History of U.S. Gov’t Bailouts
http://www.propublica.org/special/government-bailouts

And all us taxpayers get is a nasty attitude.

[Tzfat]

No airline has been given a cent. All of the funds from the Air Transport Safety and Stabilization Act went to public institutions or to guarantee loans - all which were paid back. 100%.

There have been no bailouts of any US carriers. Ever.

Attitudes have a way of being reflective. The accuser usually is the one with the attitude.

[Tzfat]

What are you doing on a conservative web site if you think that temporarily suspending a tax charged to a consumer is a "bailout" for the entity collecting the fee for the government? Sheesh. Congress authorized a temporary suspension of the Federal tax that airlines collect and the airlines OWE the taxpayer? Yeah, put down whatever you are drinking.

Your logic would have a reduction in a state's sales tax be deemed a "bailout" for retailers. ROFL.