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To: Swordmaker
Canalys, like other net analysis comapnies such as NetApplications, get NO COOPERATION from China for their statistics and are forces to GUESSTIMATE the Chinese market.

ROFL!!
You first of all claim that the Chinese smartphone market is bigger than the US smartphone market. Then when I point out to you that Canalys(who have a very solid reputation in tracking smartphone sales going back years), pointedly made it clear that the US smartphone market is much bigger than the Chinese smartphone market, you, the same individual, turn round and scream that the Chinese don't give any figures to anyone, so all Chinese figures are mere guesses.
So tell me, if no one has the Chinese figures, where did you get the figures to back your claim that the Chinese smartphone market is bigger than the US smartphone market then?

Reality: Canalys is able to get smartphone sales from publicly traded Chinese cell phone company earnings reports and other sources. Huge telecom firms like China Telecom and China Mobile Limited (the world's largest mobile phone operator, with over 508 million customers and traded on the New York Stock Exchange under the symbol CHL), release their earnings reports amnd smartphone/non-smartphone sales figures, just like Apple does.

http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=chl

It's got nothing to do with the Chinese government. The Chinese goverment doesn't lock up China Telecom's sales figures in some underground vault deep under the mountains in some secret location in China do they?

72 posted on 08/04/2010 12:49:30 PM PDT by SmokingJoe
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To: SmokingJoe; PugetSoundSoldier
You first of all claim that the Chinese smartphone market is bigger than the US smartphone market. Then when I point out to you that Canalys(who have a very solid reputation in tracking smartphone sales going back years), pointedly made it clear that the US smartphone market is much bigger than the Chinese smartphone market, you, the same individual, turn round and scream that the Chinese don't give any figures to anyone, so all Chinese figures are mere guesses. So tell me, if no one has the Chinese figures, where did you get the figures to back your claim that the Chinese smartphone market is bigger than the US smartphone market then?

Joe, I made no claims about the sizes of markets. Don't you start the deliberate misquoting method of debating again.

All I brought up is a well know issue that was covered here last year when NetApplications changed their reporting methodology and started "estimating" the various OS and equipment usage in the communist block countries based on CIA and NSA reports of their estimates of Internet usage and sales, rather than actual hard data because actual hard data statistics were considered "state secrets" by those countries and they were not available. Other such companies quickly adjusted their reports as well to comport with NetApplications' lead. This was discussed on FR at the time and in the tech blogs. These nations have not changed their policies about that data or access to gathering it. I stand by my comments.

The fact is that there are far more customers in the Chinese market than there are in the US market. Canalys cannot, and does not, count any of the gray and black market smart phones that are rife in the Chinese market. Ask PugetSoundSoldier about his observations on that.

74 posted on 08/04/2010 1:21:15 PM PDT by Swordmaker (This tag line is a Microsoft product "insult" free zone!)
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To: SmokingJoe
Reality: Canalys is able to get smartphone sales from publicly traded Chinese cell phone company earnings reports and other sources. Huge telecom firms like China Telecom and China Mobile Limited (the world's largest mobile phone operator, with over 508 million customers and traded on the New York Stock Exchange under the symbol CHL), release their earnings reports amnd smartphone/non-smartphone sales figures, just like Apple does.

I haven't read China Mobile's quarterly Report but it would surprise me to see that level of detail in that report. It's not required. Apple does not reveal detailed breakdowns like you claim. They don't even provide a breakdown of profits or earnings by division or product line. Apple does not break down the sales of iPhones by model or memory capacity. They did make announcements about the number of iPhone 4s sold for publicity purposes, but not in there financials. Certainly your link, intended to lead authority to your claim, provides no such evidence.

75 posted on 08/04/2010 1:38:34 PM PDT by Swordmaker (This tag line is a Microsoft product "insult" free zone!)
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