Posted on 08/02/2010 11:44:11 PM PDT by propertius
I’m glad Shimon Peres has retracted his claim that the British Establishment is motivated by anti-Semitism. It was a silly and unpresidential thing to say and, more to the point, it was inaccurate. No doubt it can be frustrating to deal with FCO mandarins; but, wrong as our officials are about most things, they are rarely anti-Semitic. It’s true that our diplomats tend to emphasise Britain’s relations with its former Arab protectorates, notably Jordan and the Gulf monarchies. Nothing wrong with that, of course, though you can see why it makes some Israelis uneasy. It’s true, too, that many FCO officials are Euro-federalists. Committed as they are to supra-nationalism, they subliminally resent the country which represents the world’s greatest vindication of the national principle. For 2000 years, Jews were stateless and scattered, but they never abandoned their dream of a homeland: “Next year in Jerusalem!” Then, against all the odds – providentially, we might almost say – they fulfilled it, thereby refuting the EU’s ruling doctrine, namely that the nation-state has no special legitimacy. So, are British civil servants unsupportive of Israel? Yes, sometimes. But the idea that anti-Semitism is unusually prevalent in Britain is wretchedly ahistorical. I suggest President Peres reads Paul Johnson’s History of the Jews. Johnson argues convincingly that, prior to the opening up of North America, England was the securest and freest place to live if you were Jewish.
(Excerpt) Read more at blogs.telegraph.co.uk ...
Oh thats nonsense. It proves nothing of the kind.
Exactly right
But the mandate of Palestine was. The British WERE the civil authorities at the time.
So what? So the British murdered Jews at will and the Jews decided to fight back.
Or alternately, certain jews committed crimes and were properly punished for it.
Maybe the Jews learned from the American patriots.
Different time. Different argument (I dont recall the British murdering at will in America- why should they, it WAS part of Britain). Nonsense irrelevent comparison.
And they have one, do they not?
If they made promises to the Arabs, that is proof of perfidious behavior.
Nonsense.
Remember that even if that is an excuse, that they made contridictory promises, they acted in only one way, supporting the Arabs, ignoring their atrocities and stifling the Jews.
Rubbish. They certainly did NOT act in only one way.
Most importantly remember that at the time, this was much more then a debate. With the coming Holocaust in Europe, the British closing off the land of Israel doomed Jews to certain death.
Most tragic. But remember, no one knew there was going to be a holocaust at the time. Most people considered it inconceivable that such a thing could happen in a civilised land like Germany.
The King David Bombing of British HQ came after the tragedy of the the Holocaust was known and when the British were repulsively imprisoning men, women and child survivors.
Repulsively? You mean keeping them in camps?
By the way, do you have any comments on the rest of what I wrote?
American hubris hasn’t declined with America’s fortunes. I think we’ll be waiting forever for that.
I have
You are making things up.
No Im not.
The British made war on the Jews. Period.
That is a LIE. It just simply is not true.
So much so that in 1948 the British armed, trained and ACTUALLY LED, Arab armies attempting to destroy Israel.
That is a lie. They did not organise arab armies attempting to destroy Israel. I presume you are referring to the Arab Legion, which was organised, trained and officered by the British in the 1920's as an internal security force for the Transjordan area and subsequently used against Axis forces during WW2 in what is now Syria and Iraq. They were withdrawn from Palestine during the period of the mandate and only came back in for the 1948 war. The officers were British nationals but they were NOT acting under the auspices of the British Government, which instructed them to return to Transjordan. All of them volunteered to continue in the legion, which basically meant they were mercenaries.
And they have one, do they not?
It is absurd for me to continue. Anyone who has any real knowledge of history - and that is quite a few here- recognizes that you are either ignorant beyond belief or playing at being dumb.
Israel exists in spite of the British. The British did every single thing in their power to deny the Jews a State including at the end aiding the Arabs in their genocidal 1948 intentions.
If anyone else here is masochistic enough to continue disproving your foolish absurdities they will continue with you.
Lieutenant-General Sir John Bagot Glubb
who lead the Jordanian forces, as an active British officer, when they attacked Israel in 1948.
Note that he was awarded the British honor, The Most Honourable Order of the Bath, in 1956.
How about the lifelong imprisonment of Lord George Gordon for the crime of converting to Judaism. Of course, there is the larger context that back when he was a protestant, in 1781 (date?) he attempted to deliver a public petition to Parliament to keep on excluding Catholics from public life, causing days of bloody anti-Catholic rioting in the streets of London.
“But the fact remains: Israel today only exists because of the actions of the British. We did all that despite - according to you - hating and despising European Jewry.”
Actually, the mid-19th Century saw a dramatic increase in Jewish immigration to the Holy Land, well before the collapse of the Ottoman Empire. The creation of a Jewish Homeland there was really inevitable. After the Napoleonic wars, Jews were more free than ever before since the Bar Kochba revolt to return to our one true home.
The fact is that in payment for the Palestinian brigades that played a key role in overthrowing the Ottoman Empire, Lord Balfour made a meaningless declaration that British policy immediately geared up to undermine every way possible, from the setting aside of the election of Mufti of Jerusalem in favor of the anti-Semitic Haj Ali Husseini to the White Paper that called for the exclusion of desperate Jewish refugees during WW II on the grounds, inter alia, that they may be German spies, to the total settlement and immigration freeze in 1947 to the destruction of the Jewish Quarter by Arab League troops acting under the direction of British officers.
“You’re welcome.”
“Hitler killed Six Million. Oyeah! Oyeah! The Sixth Airbourne will kill sixty million if you don’t bloody behave well.” British Graffiti quoted by Menachem Begin in Revolt!
Gee, thanks.
Its absurd for me to continue. Your appeal to superior knowledge based upon the thoughts of the “Israel can do no wrong” crowd doesn’t cut any ice with me. You haven’t disproved anything because, unfortunately, you are coming from that standpoint, and any minor deviation from absolute support is immediately labelled anti-semitic. You know a lot about Israel but bugger all about Britain.
Just because individual Britons fought for the Arabs in the 1948 war doesnt mean the British were. As for the order of the Bath, its common to give honors like that to retiring senior civil servants and generals. It doesnt amount to very much.
Not necessary. Really.
After being on FR for many years, these sorts of arguments occur with the same information. Over and over again.
It is largely a waste of time. If you get certain types angry enough, they get the old "Christ killer" comments ready.
Care for a nice cup of tea?
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