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Shimon Peres was wrong: if anything, Britain has the strongest philo-Semitic tradition in Europe
The Daily Telegraph (UK) ^ | Aug 2, 2010 | Daniel Hannan

Posted on 08/02/2010 11:44:11 PM PDT by propertius

I’m glad Shimon Peres has retracted his claim that the British Establishment is motivated by anti-Semitism. It was a silly and unpresidential thing to say and, more to the point, it was inaccurate. No doubt it can be frustrating to deal with FCO mandarins; but, wrong as our officials are about most things, they are rarely anti-Semitic. It’s true that our diplomats tend to emphasise Britain’s relations with its former Arab protectorates, notably Jordan and the Gulf monarchies. Nothing wrong with that, of course, though you can see why it makes some Israelis uneasy. It’s true, too, that many FCO officials are Euro-federalists. Committed as they are to supra-nationalism, they subliminally resent the country which represents the world’s greatest vindication of the national principle. For 2000 years, Jews were stateless and scattered, but they never abandoned their dream of a homeland: “Next year in Jerusalem!” Then, against all the odds – providentially, we might almost say – they fulfilled it, thereby refuting the EU’s ruling doctrine, namely that the nation-state has no special legitimacy. So, are British civil servants unsupportive of Israel? Yes, sometimes. But the idea that anti-Semitism is unusually prevalent in Britain is wretchedly ahistorical. I suggest President Peres reads Paul Johnson’s History of the Jews. Johnson argues convincingly that, prior to the opening up of North America, England was the securest and freest place to live if you were Jewish.

(Excerpt) Read more at blogs.telegraph.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Israel; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: antisemitism; israel; peres
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To: propertius
Britain’s new export: Islamist carnage
81 posted on 08/03/2010 4:18:34 PM PDT by HearMe
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To: HearMe

Oh thats nonsense. It proves nothing of the kind.


82 posted on 08/03/2010 4:42:23 PM PDT by Vanders9
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To: casuist

Exactly right


83 posted on 08/03/2010 4:43:52 PM PDT by Vanders9
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To: HearMe
The Land of Israel was not Britain's country.

But the mandate of Palestine was. The British WERE the civil authorities at the time.

So what? So the British murdered Jews at will and the Jews decided to fight back.

Or alternately, certain jews committed crimes and were properly punished for it.

Maybe the Jews learned from the American patriots.

Different time. Different argument (I dont recall the British murdering at will in America- why should they, it WAS part of Britain). Nonsense irrelevent comparison.

84 posted on 08/03/2010 4:57:14 PM PDT by Vanders9
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To: HearMe
The British pledge was to help create a Jews homeland.

And they have one, do they not?

If they made promises to the Arabs, that is proof of perfidious behavior.

Nonsense.

Remember that even if that is an excuse, that they made contridictory promises, they acted in only one way, supporting the Arabs, ignoring their atrocities and stifling the Jews.

Rubbish. They certainly did NOT act in only one way.

Most importantly remember that at the time, this was much more then a debate. With the coming Holocaust in Europe, the British closing off the land of Israel doomed Jews to certain death.

Most tragic. But remember, no one knew there was going to be a holocaust at the time. Most people considered it inconceivable that such a thing could happen in a civilised land like Germany.

The King David Bombing of British HQ came after the tragedy of the the Holocaust was known and when the British were repulsively imprisoning men, women and child survivors.

Repulsively? You mean keeping them in camps?

85 posted on 08/03/2010 5:02:13 PM PDT by Vanders9
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To: HearMe

By the way, do you have any comments on the rest of what I wrote?


86 posted on 08/03/2010 5:02:57 PM PDT by Vanders9
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To: allmendream; HearMe

American hubris hasn’t declined with America’s fortunes. I think we’ll be waiting forever for that.


87 posted on 08/03/2010 5:05:03 PM PDT by Vanders9
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To: HearMe
Read the wordings of the documents I cited.

I have

You are making things up.

No Im not.

The British made war on the Jews. Period.

That is a LIE. It just simply is not true.

So much so that in 1948 the British armed, trained and ACTUALLY LED, Arab armies attempting to destroy Israel.

That is a lie. They did not organise arab armies attempting to destroy Israel. I presume you are referring to the Arab Legion, which was organised, trained and officered by the British in the 1920's as an internal security force for the Transjordan area and subsequently used against Axis forces during WW2 in what is now Syria and Iraq. They were withdrawn from Palestine during the period of the mandate and only came back in for the 1948 war. The officers were British nationals but they were NOT acting under the auspices of the British Government, which instructed them to return to Transjordan. All of them volunteered to continue in the legion, which basically meant they were mercenaries.

88 posted on 08/03/2010 5:18:20 PM PDT by Vanders9
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To: Vanders9
The British pledge was to help create a Jews homeland.

And they have one, do they not?

It is absurd for me to continue. Anyone who has any real knowledge of history - and that is quite a few here- recognizes that you are either ignorant beyond belief or playing at being dumb.

Israel exists in spite of the British. The British did every single thing in their power to deny the Jews a State including at the end aiding the Arabs in their genocidal 1948 intentions.

If anyone else here is masochistic enough to continue disproving your foolish absurdities they will continue with you.

89 posted on 08/03/2010 5:21:50 PM PDT by HearMe
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To: HearMe
If anyone is not familiar read about:

Lieutenant-General Sir John Bagot Glubb

who lead the Jordanian forces, as an active British officer, when they attacked Israel in 1948.

Note that he was awarded the British honor, The Most Honourable Order of the Bath, in 1956.

90 posted on 08/03/2010 5:29:59 PM PDT by HearMe
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To: casuist

How about the lifelong imprisonment of Lord George Gordon for the crime of converting to Judaism. Of course, there is the larger context that back when he was a protestant, in 1781 (date?) he attempted to deliver a public petition to Parliament to keep on excluding Catholics from public life, causing days of bloody anti-Catholic rioting in the streets of London.


91 posted on 08/03/2010 11:18:07 PM PDT by Eleutheria5 ( Two-state solution: A bad idea whose time has gone.)
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To: agere_contra

“But the fact remains: Israel today only exists because of the actions of the British. We did all that despite - according to you - hating and despising European Jewry.”

Actually, the mid-19th Century saw a dramatic increase in Jewish immigration to the Holy Land, well before the collapse of the Ottoman Empire. The creation of a Jewish Homeland there was really inevitable. After the Napoleonic wars, Jews were more free than ever before since the Bar Kochba revolt to return to our one true home.

The fact is that in payment for the Palestinian brigades that played a key role in overthrowing the Ottoman Empire, Lord Balfour made a meaningless declaration that British policy immediately geared up to undermine every way possible, from the setting aside of the election of Mufti of Jerusalem in favor of the anti-Semitic Haj Ali Husseini to the White Paper that called for the exclusion of desperate Jewish refugees during WW II on the grounds, inter alia, that they may be German spies, to the total settlement and immigration freeze in 1947 to the destruction of the Jewish Quarter by Arab League troops acting under the direction of British officers.

“You’re welcome.”

“Hitler killed Six Million. Oyeah! Oyeah! The Sixth Airbourne will kill sixty million if you don’t bloody behave well.” British Graffiti quoted by Menachem Begin in Revolt!

Gee, thanks.


92 posted on 08/03/2010 11:36:20 PM PDT by Eleutheria5 ( Two-state solution: A bad idea whose time has gone.)
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To: HearMe

Its absurd for me to continue. Your appeal to superior knowledge based upon the thoughts of the “Israel can do no wrong” crowd doesn’t cut any ice with me. You haven’t disproved anything because, unfortunately, you are coming from that standpoint, and any minor deviation from absolute support is immediately labelled anti-semitic. You know a lot about Israel but bugger all about Britain.


93 posted on 08/04/2010 12:47:06 AM PDT by Vanders9
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To: HearMe
I know all about Glubb Pasha. He was one of the pro-Arab faction in the Middle East. He'd been with the Arab Legion for decades and was very loyal to it. He was an active British officer, but had been seconded to the Jordanian army (as were all the officers of the Arab Legion). When the 1948 war kicked off the British government ordered them all back to the transjordan. They went, but then sneaked back. They were all more loyal to the Arab Legion than they were to Britain.

Just because individual Britons fought for the Arabs in the 1948 war doesnt mean the British were. As for the order of the Bath, its common to give honors like that to retiring senior civil servants and generals. It doesnt amount to very much.

94 posted on 08/04/2010 12:59:16 AM PDT by Vanders9
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To: Yehuda
I HAVE TO DEFEND SHIMON THE PERESITE from these loons?

Not necessary. Really.

After being on FR for many years, these sorts of arguments occur with the same information. Over and over again.

It is largely a waste of time. If you get certain types angry enough, they get the old "Christ killer" comments ready.

Care for a nice cup of tea?

99 posted on 08/04/2010 10:47:53 PM PDT by Nachum (The complete Obama list at www.nachumlist.com)
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Comment #100 Removed by Moderator


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