You wrote:
“how are you ever going to know any differently?”
Then the best thing to do is solve it definitively forever. Reunite Ireland. Many people consider that to be the inevitable outcome anyway.
“No, I disagree with you. People who disagree with you do not neccesarily and automatically know less.”
No, they don’t. In this case, that is the case, however.
“No, the point of my statement was not whether I care about you think - it was in opposition to your statement that you didnt care less what I thought about a particular political issue. The point being that if you simply dismiss other peoples passionately held viewpoints, why should they not do the same to you?”
Go ahead and dismiss my “passionately held viewpoints”. I wouldn’t worry about it in the least.
“You’re not stupid Vlad - I can’t believe you don’t understand what I was saying.”
I do understand - I understand that what you say doesn’t matter. This is not a personal issue for me in the least.
“Well with a mindset like that they never are going to. Nothing but total victory will suffice. Unfortunately, the problem with that kind of thinking is that “total victory” is never achieved.”
Actually I think in the real world total victory is often achieved.
“You keep saying British occupation. Ireland was part of Britain, therefore there were British soldiers there.”
Did the people of Ireland consider themselves British? How about India? Did they feel occupied even though they were part of the British Empire?
“There are British soldiers all over Britain. Is there a problem with that”
For the Irish in Ireland, when the British were there, yes.
“Thats a nonsensical argument! I know the Irish nationalists want the British out. The problem is that the unionists want them IN.”
Nothing was nonsensical about my argument. Where is the problem? In the North. To say that it doesn’t matter that the British were still occupying the North just recently is nonsensical since that is one of the main issues.
“Its not a question of pretending they dont exist. Its forward thinking of what happens when the “problem” is ended. There’s not much point if another worse problem is created instead.”
What worse problem? Was there a worse problem in the South when the British army left? No. Even the Irish civil war was not worse than the British occupation because that included tyranny and degradation. What happened that was “worse” when the British left America? Oh, right. Nothing.
“Actually though, I think it does. You are saying that the “invaders” can just simply go to England Scotland or Wales if they want to stay British. But the Unionists of today are not invaders.”
You’re absolutely right. I should have said “descendents of invaders who still cherish the memory of slaughtering and oppressing innocent Irish”. Sorry, my mistake.
“You extol the virtues of being Irish, but deny them the right to call themselves British.”
I never claimed there was a virtue of being Irish - nor would I. I also never denied anyone any right to call themselves British. Call yourself a Martian for all I care. The point is that most of them DON’T WANT TO CALL THEMSELVES BRITISH.
“Of course they are going to fight against that. Wouldnt you?”
I don’t even know what you’re saying.
“No, it proves that most people just want to get on with their lives in peace, not in a land where there are bombings, assassinations, revenge killings and constant violence. They’ve left because they have been driven out, not because they want to go. No wonder the demographics are changing.”
They were not driven out. The British army and RUC were there to protect them. Few died in 30 years of violence. While the Protestants can easily burn down Irish Catholic homes and attack Catholic school girls with impunity, Catholics really aren’t attacking the Protestants in any significant way. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Cross_dispute
No the best thing would be for them to stop thinking like that. Reuniting Ireland (or any other political solution to any problem anywhere) isn't going to stop any violence if the fundamental mindset of agrievement is still present. Do you suppose that if a Palestinian state was ever set up that all violence against Israel would cease?
Go ahead and dismiss my “passionately held viewpoints”. I wouldn’t worry about it in the least.
Don't worry. I shall.
What worse problem? Was there a worse problem in the South when the British army left? No.
YES
Even the Irish civil war was not worse than the British occupation because that included tyranny and degradation.
What tyranny and degredation? Oh, of course...any British ownership counts, irrespective of what the actual consequences were
What happened that was “worse” when the British left America? Oh, right. Nothing.
Quite a lot of things actually. Systematic extermination and/or forced movement of large numbers of natives, a blatant land-grab against Canada; retention of Negro slavery (which the British outlawed several decades before the US did), a major civil war, and on an on. Of course, if North America had remained part of the British Empire, these things (or even worse) might have happened anyway. The point is that "all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God". Generations of Americans were conned into thinking they had left the old world and all its corrupt power politics behind. In fact you brought some of the desert with you. You can tell me that a united Irish Republic will be a better place, but dont ever suggest its all going to be perfect, because it certainly wont be.
They were not driven out. The British army and RUC were there to protect them. Few died in 30 years of violence. While the Protestants can easily burn down Irish Catholic homes and attack Catholic school girls with impunity, Catholics really aren’t attacking the Protestants in any significant way.
What???? I'm sorry but none of that is true. It just simply isnt. Check the thread title out for goodness sake. No im sorry, if you really and honestly believe that to be true there is no further point to this discussion.