Officers In Costco Shooting Identified (NV)

fox5vegas.com ^ | 12 July, 2010 | NA

[marktwain]

LAS VEGAS -- Las Vegas Metro police on Monday identified the three officers who shot and killed an armed man outside a Costco store in Summerlin.

They are Officer William Mosher, 38, a five-year veteran of the department, Officer Joshua Stark, 28, who has been with the department since September 2008, and Officer Thomas Mendiola, 23, who joined the department in March 2009.

[Renderofveils]

If they had shot one of my siblings would they be responsible? Furthermore, would the person who MISUSED 911 be culpable in some manner?

In most places, there are laws on the books for giving false information to 911. Most of the time it's up to the responding officer to cite the person. In this case, I'd imagine that will/might be done by the detective investigating the shooting.

[Moonman62]

He was taserd and shot at the same time.

...something very wrong here

What's wrong is a comment on an internet forum isn't the same as testimony under oath.

[Osage Orange]

Obviously you have some burr under your saddle when it comes to cops.....

Like any profession....there are good ones and bad ones. Although you seem to see it only one way.

[conimbricenses]

The point is that the cops showed up thinking there was a crazed gunman "going berserk" in the store because they had apparently been told that by the Costco employee. When they arrived common sense should have kicked in as soon as they realized there was no gunman. But the Costco employee is also at fault for the way he/she described it to them.

To put it another way, it is not unreasonable to think that this would have ended very differently if the Costco employee had called the police and said "We have a man in our store who claims he has a concealed handgun license but we're not sure. Could you send somebody over to verify it?" I don't underestimate the ability of police to botch that up as well, but it would have likely produced a much less tense situation than "there's a guy with a gun going berserk in our store!"

[Grunthor]

“So, because of your ASSUMPTION OF A MISAPPLIED/MISALIGNED ACCUSATION”

I assumed nothing except that what I was told was accurate (and it was) that the man was a murder suspect.

“you would have been personally satisfied and justified in shooting the man should he have not OBEYED you?”

What part of “Empty hands” is difficult to understand for you?

“What an ass you make of the law. Suppose he was a diabetic or epileptic? How would you cover your ass?”

How does being either diabetic or epileptic make one deaf or unable to understand clearly stated orders?

“Your attitude is tooooo typical! You may not want to come down my road without a warrant and a smile! I am not naive, and I am well armed/protected/incentivized. I am posted. Castle doctrine applies!”

Well unfortunately for your zeal to kill a cop Rambo, I am not one any longer, I quit years ago.

[dennisw]

 

 

http://www.8newsnow.com/global/story.asp?s=12785291

 

My husband and I were witnesses of this tragedy at Costco and we also believe the police did not handle this situation correctly; however we must as citizens look at the entire chain of events. A Costco employee very possibly “someone who is fearful of guns” started a chain reaction of events. It’s like yelling fire in a crowded room, panic then sets in. I believe that retailers and the people living in this state should be aware that citizens are allowed to carry a gun with a proper permit, and the site of one should not set them in a panic. Stores such as Costco should train their employees that, and should train them proper reporting of possible problems. They should quietly move people in the immediate area of a problem away. Instead they created a panic situation that when the police arrived looked much worse than it was. These officers adrenaline had to really be flowing. To make statements that they purposely murdered this man is ridiculous. Mistakes were made, but I would ask all of you to how it would be to live in a world without police protection. (One on Erick’s friends stated that Erick had respect for law and order and for Metro itself.) I would hope that we as human beings will work towards implementing proper training for civilians and police officers to keep a tragedy like this from happening again. It is a true tragedy for Erick, his family and friends.

________________________________

 

Although I was not at Costco yesterday, from the reports I have been receiving, it sounds as though an employee at Costco severely overreacted. It sounds as though a simple call to the police to report "A man who has a gun in a holster around his waist and states he has a CCW, which we do not allow at Costco, is not leaving when asked by the management" was taken to Def Con 5, complete with silent alarms and "bomb scare" evacuations. This set up a scene, where the police may have felt they needed to use more force than was necessary, based on the story they were told before they encountered him outside. This initial overreaction by Costco is most likely what cost him his life. He was probably caught off-guard and freaked out with all those guns pulled on him. Instead of putting his hands on his head, he probably made the split-second mistake of lifting up his shirt to show the cops his gun so they could take it away, or maybe to try to disarm himself, for which he lost his life.

______________________

I couldn't agree with you more....My wife and I were 7 or 8 feet away from the shooting as were the police. We were to the suspects immediate right. We heard and saw the 3 police officers shouting to the man in question to 'get on your knees' several times. At that point the man appeared somewhat stunned by the commotion and shouting of the police. His Right arm went up in a defenseless position and it appeared his left arm appeared to be going up but there was NO gun in his hand. He was taserd and shot at the same time. At no time did the man in question ever raise his voice, shout an obscenity or become confrontational with the police. We saw the disabled man stooping to his right facing us with what appeared to be a bullet wound in his upper chest with blood coming from the wound and immediately his eyes became glossy as he began to convulse. At this point he was no threat to anyone, both hands were in full view of us and there was no gun. As he was down, the police continued to shout 'put the gun down' several times...but there was no gun in his hand as we had full vantage point view. The injured man was having agonal respirations, he was down when the second volly of bullets rang out. There was no doubt in question that following the second barrage of bullets the man was dead. His girlfriend was to the back side of us and began to scream.....why did you kill him, he is a military man with a license to carry a concealed weapon. You didn't need to kill him....you didn't need to kill him.

______________________________

It wouldn't shock me at all if the investigation determines that one officer ordered Scott to disarm while the other officers shot him as he attempted to disarm, thinking that he was going to shoot at them. It is quite possible Erik could have been attempting to comply with police order and that the other officers didn't hear the orders in the confusion. In that case, it would have been a tragic error on the part of the police due to poor communication and training. I suppose that's just one of many possibilities.

My only hope is that all of the officers in the investigation answer the questions they're asked honestly.

_{________________________________}

 

 

[Cboldt]

-- Just careless, negligent, and worthy of about 25 years. --

Voluntary manslaughter.

I don't think it's possible to find the cops to possess an indifference to life, sufficient to obtain a conviction for 2nd degree murder.

I think they are also financially liable in civil court for wrongful death. I don't know if the county indemnifies for criminal actions. It might pay off even if they are found guilty of involuntary manslaughter.

[WVKayaker]

I'm not Rambo. I'm just an old guy sick of assholes with badges! I ama businessman and grandfather of 8.

Have a good day, and be warned about my neighborhood. My lane isn't the only one so described! West Virginia is a different world! Texas has a lot of similarity!

[OneWingedShark]

See post #166 where one witness says he was standing (with his wife) about 7 or 8 feet away... that isn’t a lot of room-for-error & depending on how things were lined-up the effective angle-difference from [from the shooter’s perspective] between the ‘target’ and the ‘bystanders’ could have been quite small.

[Fundamentally Fair]

...cops act like zoo keepers...

That's an interesting admission.

[conimbricenses]

You're overlooking something crucial, Gruthor. In practically every situation that you enter into as a cop you have the advantage by law.

- You have the advantage of being able to legally carry a gun pretty much wherever you want
- You have the advantage of broad and sweeping immunity from prosecution if you use that gun to take another life
- You have the advantage of an entire police department ready to back you up or come to your assistance at a moment's notice
- You have the advantage of a criminal justice system that is largely supportive of and deferential to police in general

All of those things give you a distinct advantage in dealing with criminal elements of society, and they do so by design. The members of the general public, by contrast, have none of those advantages when they encounter criminals. So instead of whining about the purported "risks" of your job be thankful for what it gives you. The rest of us don't get to enjoy the privileges you do.

[Grunthor]

I would have thought someone that has been around as long as you have would be smarter than this. Do you always take bits of peoples comments out of context and post them in this manner or are you usually more honest than that?

[Non-Sequitur]

The point is that the cops showed up thinking there was a crazed gunman "going berserk" in the store because they had apparently been told that by the Costco employee.

Nobody, not the police or any of the news stories I've read, use the that description. The common account seems to be that the Costco employee told police that there was someone in the store destroying merchandise and he was armed. A witness account says that the victim had been breaking up a pack of energy drinks and seeing how many he could fit into a backpack. So maybe 'destroying merchandise' may have been a stretch but he was acting improperly, and it's a far cry from claiming he told police he was 'going berserk'. In fact it was the police who used that term to describe the victims actions once they accosted him outside the store. Nothing the Costco employee seems to have done caused panic in the store; there are no accounts from anyone of a mad rush to the door or unruly evacuation or anything. So police knew that there was someone causing a disruption and he was armed. Nothing inaccurate in that. Everything they did after that seems to have been an unnecessary escalation of the situation ending in the shooting of a man who shouldn't have been shot. Costco can't be blamed for that.

[Cboldt]

-- that isn't a lot of room-for-error & depending on how things were lined-up the effective angle-difference from [from the shooter's perspective] between the `target' and the `bystanders' could have been quite small. --

Assume for argument sake that they killed two people, the intended target of their volleys, and some kid who was just in the wrong place. I think both are voluntary manslaughter.

I'm not saying a second degree murder charge is off the scale, just that I don't see a jury finding the sort of "indifference" that is connoted by murder.

[Grunthor]

So in order to protect the right of the murder suspect to NOT follow the orders of a policeman, the policeman should be prepard to die, rather than shoot?

[conimbricenses]

"According to Las Vegas police, officers were called to 801 S. Pavilion Center Drive at 12:47 p.m. by a store worker who said a man was destroying merchandise. Police were told the man had a gun. Capt. Patrick Neville described Scott as "kind of going berserk."

http://www.lvrj.com/news/slaying-of-army-veteran-shocks-friends-98223884.html

I can't help you any further if you can't even bring yourself to read the basic news accounts.

[RandallFlagg]

Ironic that after Columbine, Clinton was in Denver doing a kind of televised Q&A over that incident.

He stated, “You have freedom of speech, but it’s restricted as well. For example, you can’t yell, “Fire,” in a crowded theater.”

My first thought was that if there was a fire, you surely can. And if there wasn’t, you must suffer the consequences.

If it’s shown that the Costco babe yelled, “Guy trashing the store with a gun,” she must suffer the consequences.

[conimbricenses]

You’ve yet to establish that your “suspect” was even armed, much less willing to use that weapon to kill you. So “being prepared to die” does not even enter into a rational and objective assessment of the situation yet.

[GlockThe Vote]

Yes I do, Having grown up with, and known many cops, and seeing the fleecing of the taxpayer and the garbage they pull, I have a much different view than the child-hood nonsense we were all told to believe.

[Non-Sequitur]

I can't help you any further if you can't even bring yourself to read the basic news accounts.

Apparently you have the comprehension problem. It was the police captain who described the victim as going berserk, not the Costco employee. Your own account shows that Costco simply reported a man destroying merchandise, which he seems to have been doing, and that he was armed.