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To: Cardhu

Interesting, and sometimes amazing.

Now, since I am a M.Sc. myself, I can say something about the university. In Holland, a degree is not a guarantee for a reasonable income. Not even for an income per se.

It is a tangled issue. Numerous academic studies do not lead to expertise that is highly in demand in the outside world; yet these studies are indispensable to the maintenance of our cultural position. The sensible thing to do here is to put a cap on the number of students allowed to get in; the cap should have a sound connection to the demand for professionals in a certain discipline.

In economically uncertain times, there is a tendency for young people to enroll in a college, or university. Although this sounds like a good choice (i.e. increase future job chances), I think reality is, um, more diverse.

I see too many ‘slackers’, pretending to study, but being quite lazy, and always going for the minimally necessary markings. If there’s a real capacity in them, it’s that for partying. It may be a fun life, without any real responsibilities. But in reality, it leads to nowhere.

Now, here’s a personal opinion that may be controversial. I agree with the late and esteemed American philosopher Allan Bloom on this: there should be no ‘money-oriented studies’ in the university. One can obtain all the qualifications of an M.B.A. in a private company; although highly fashionable, financial studies have nothing at all to do with the core duties of a good university: to teach, to study, to debate, to be as mentally creative as one can, without the influence of outside interests, financially or otherwise. For money, there are banks; for studying, there are universities.

I plead for serious forms of quality control and evaluation: better to tell a very mediocre student halfway that he/she will have a hard time to proceed as is being done, and get an occupation with his/her capacities in the chosen field of study, then to let him/her struggle, fall, get up, and struggle on with a tragically hopeless perspective. That would save good money.

Well, just my two cents. Curious how others will chime in.


32 posted on 06/14/2010 6:31:40 AM PDT by Ayn And Milton
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To: Ayn And Milton
better to tell a very mediocre student halfway that he/she will have a hard time to proceed

I agree. That would be morally right to do, in my opinion. However, you would not be able to do that in the US. Mediocre students come in all colors, and so a certain percentage of the mediocre students would be black. WHAM! As soon as anyone tells a mediocre black student that they should rethink their desire for a college degree, it's time for a lawsuit.

Therefore, you cannot tell a very mediocre student halfway that he/she will have a hard time to proceed.

42 posted on 06/14/2010 6:37:20 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy
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To: Ayn And Milton

In Europe, where the State pays for the well qualified students, they make sure they get value for money.

Whereas, in a for profit education system it is simply a numbers game, wheel ‘em in, the bottom line is profit. That approach inevitably brings with it all the ills that you have described.


57 posted on 06/14/2010 7:00:18 AM PDT by Cardhu
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To: Ayn And Milton
The sensible thing to do here is to put a cap on the number of students allowed to get in

Then get rid of Federally-backed student loans for those majors. Actually, get rid of all of them; educational institutions will be forced by the laws of supply and demand to reduce their prices to what the market can bear and corporations will be forced to stop using college degrees as the new high school diploma.

the cap should have a sound connection to the demand for professionals in a certain discipline.

Determined by the government, eh?

That's called central planning, sir.

98 posted on 06/14/2010 1:22:21 PM PDT by rabscuttle385 (Live Free or Die)
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