Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Panel hears arguments on Yucca abandonment
Las Vegas Review Journal ^ | Jun 4, 2010 | Keith Rogers

Posted on 06/04/2010 8:24:11 AM PDT by epithermal

After being on opposite sides for most of the project's history, the DOE and Nevada both argued in favor of the DOE withdrawing the Yucca Mountain license application with prejudice so the agency can get on with considering other alternatives for disposing of the nation's used nuclear reactor fuel.

(Excerpt) Read more at lvrj.com ...


TOPICS: Government; News/Current Events; US: Nevada
KEYWORDS: nuclearenergy; nuclearpower; yucca
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-36 next last
This is infuriating idiocy. This action highlights the insanity of our political class. We have already spent billions studying this problem and Yucca is suitable. We taxpayers want a refund.
1 posted on 06/04/2010 8:24:11 AM PDT by epithermal
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: epithermal

I’m not so sure. A geologist I know who has seen cores from the site said they show a lot of fracturing in the rocks there.


2 posted on 06/04/2010 8:27:26 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: epithermal

Wouldn’t this whole issue be largely moot if we started building breeder reactors, or am I oversimplifying?


3 posted on 06/04/2010 8:30:28 AM PDT by chrisser (Starve the Monkeys!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: epithermal
Be better to reprocess the 'waste' and reduce the actual waste to a small percentage of what exists. Thank Mr. Carter for putting a hold on reprocessing, with the idea that others would follow and reduce nuclear proliferation. Carter was an idiot.

/johnny

4 posted on 06/04/2010 8:30:50 AM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: chrisser
You are not oversimplifying. France gets much of it's electric generation from nukes, and they reprocess the 'waste'. They have a pretty good record.

/johnny

5 posted on 06/04/2010 8:32:06 AM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: JRandomFreeper
Be better to reprocess the 'waste' and reduce the actual waste to a small percentage of what exists

Yep.

6 posted on 06/04/2010 8:34:41 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: epithermal

Why are we wasting this precious resource when we could be reprocessing this into energy?


7 posted on 06/04/2010 8:36:58 AM PDT by pnh102 (Regarding liberalism, always attribute to malice what you think can be explained by stupidity. - Me)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: pnh102

Because Jimmy Carter is an idiot, and no President since him has had the guts to overrule his idiocy.


8 posted on 06/04/2010 8:39:57 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Smokin' Joe

I am sure the rocks at Yucca are fractured, just like every where else on the planet. This is not to belittle your concern, but I am a geologist and I spent 5 years studying the problem of nuclear waste disposal at another DOE site, and the main concern is groundwater. I don’t pretend to know what the issues are at Yucca, but I do believe if it was approved it should be used.

I think we need to reprocess the waste, but it will still leave waste to be stored, which is why we still need Yucca.


9 posted on 06/04/2010 8:42:46 AM PDT by epithermal
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: epithermal
I'm a geologist, too (oil industry). The problem which was apparently ignored is one of groundwater, not that that is a problem at present, but very well could be if there is real climate change in the next few thousand years--a real possibility, when one considers I am sitting on a wellsite in the middle of ground moraine left over from the last ice advance here.

I have a feeling the approval was pushed more as a political thing than on the basis of geological suitability.

A lot of different possibilities have been studied for long-term disposal, but when I last looked at the issue, there were no long termed solutions without serious drawbacks. Maybe some progress has been made since then. If so, please enlighten me.

10 posted on 06/04/2010 8:59:24 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: epithermal

The very best minds in science have been over this again and again and again. There IS NO BETTER PLACE for this function than Yucca. If we don’t want to use it then we aren’t serious about having nuclear energy.


11 posted on 06/04/2010 9:09:13 AM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Smokin' Joe

I know someone who was involved in the initial assessment of Yucca Mountain. It gets something like 0.5 inches of rain per year, and is thousands of feet above the water table. EnviroWhackos filed a challenge over whether climate change might change that situation in the future (things like, as you stated, a glacial period, continent drifting into the tropics and turning it into a rain forest, continent sinking into the ocean, etc.) Petition asked whether we could rule out with ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY that none of those would EVER happen. Of course, no human being can do that. Hence NO site is suitable unless we have a crystal ball and can see what the planet will be like millions of years into the future.


12 posted on 06/04/2010 9:14:26 AM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Smokin' Joe

I understand your concerns about climate change and hope that was considered in the siting at Yucca. The most interesting study I saw when I worked the issue was what type of warning signs would you put over a nuclear waste repository, since 10,000 years from now there will be no telling what language will be used. Mr. Yuk was thought to be a possibility!

I have not really waded through the data on Yucca, so I can’t offer an educated opinion on the technical feasibility of the site. As I recall the selection of Yucca was driven by a political decision in the 90’s when some powerful congressman from Louisiana pushed some legislation through to cancel funding to all projects other than Yucca. But, I believe any of the basic science that was done to support Yucca is probably trustworthy because I believe the scientists working the project are not particularly political.

I do recall that there were other alternative geological environments that were deemed more suitable, such as salt domes where the government stores its waste in New Mexico. I also heard about places in Texas where the ground water gradients were more suitable. I lost interest in the subject because it is all driven by politics and I have no respect for politicians when it comes to making decisions driven by facts.


13 posted on 06/04/2010 9:20:28 AM PDT by epithermal
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Buckeye McFrog
If the question was one of millions of years, that would not be a problem. It is a question of what the next few thousand will bring, and you are right. We just do not know.

All that would be needed is a significant increase in fainfall, and there is a leaching problem looking for a place to go.

Human movements are even more unpredictable, and with such a change in climate, population distribution might change as well.

Consider, a mere 8000-10000 years ago, there was a kilometer or more of ice above where I am sitting.

Stuff happens, and if we want to avoid being cursed by our descendents, we need to take that into account and find a way to prevent it.

I'm all for finding a way, and reprocessing to reduce the amount of waste seems like a good start. There will, however, be things we have no further use for which will have to be disposed of.

14 posted on 06/04/2010 9:21:49 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: epithermal

Yucca Mountain has been studied to death. The decision to abandon YM is a political decision, not a scientific decision as you and others indicate. Abandoning Yucca will mean incredible delays in removing waste currently stored on site at power plants. Yucca is a far more attractive option than on site storage. eprocessing would be a good alternative going forward but it does not seem to be on the table.

The opponents of nuclear power and NIMBY have joined together to stop YM. Moving to another location will allow the opposition to obstruct that site after many years of study.

The abandonment of YM is part of the coming energy meltdown. The left is determined to obstruct energy development except for their favored renewable options. This obstruction will eventually force artificial reductions in consumption and increased prices (think Germany with 3 times our electric rates), a key goal of the left.


15 posted on 06/04/2010 9:41:50 AM PDT by businessprofessor
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Smokin' Joe

I just remembered one more thing about the problem of nuclear waste disposal. All the scenarios that were studied assumed that the waste would break containment. So, it was not a question of if, but when and how long it would take the waste to reach the surface. So, even if waste were to reach groundwater, in some cases it would take millions of years to reach the surface and the risk would be reduced. I remember the engineers on the project built very sophisticated models in their simulations to research this.

Another point about leaching is that they have developed a process to glassify the waste so as to reduce leaching potential. They are building a plant at Hanford to do this now. I am not real familiar with the technical issues on the process.


16 posted on 06/04/2010 9:42:38 AM PDT by epithermal
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: businessprofessor

I never said it was a scientific decision. I agree with you that we should use Yucca and start building nuke plants as fast as we can.


17 posted on 06/04/2010 9:46:23 AM PDT by epithermal
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Buckeye McFrog

Yucca is a very dry tunnel, as compared to some on the weapons side of NTS in Area 12. I was involved with some of the instrumentation and testing to determine the effects of long term heating of the drift tunnels.

My considered opinion is that it is a safe site for it’s purpose. As for staying safe for 10,000 years... either we will have better technologies for waste disposal in the future and will apply them, or civilization will be kaput, in which case the troglodytes are on their own.


18 posted on 06/04/2010 9:54:00 AM PDT by Tijeras_Slim (Live jubtabulously!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: epithermal

“I never said it was a scientific decision.”

I acknowledged that you indicated it was a political decision.


19 posted on 06/04/2010 10:02:42 AM PDT by businessprofessor
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Smokin' Joe; epithermal
ll that would be needed is a significant increase in fainfall, and there is a leaching problem looking for a place to go.

IIRC, all waste was to be encased in thick hardened glass containers for transport and storage. If so, and I think it is, how does the ground water issue even arise? Why would fractures in rocks matter? As epithermal says, all formations have fractures.

20 posted on 06/04/2010 11:33:40 AM PDT by Mind-numbed Robot (Not all that needs to be done needs to be done by the government)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-36 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson