Replies

I’m just curious why you think this should be relegated to the closet down the hall?

Because it's the latest in a long, long line of "the end is near" predictions. All such predictions have been wrong in the last 1,900-plus years; I see no reason to think this one is any different. All of the date-setters and sign-seers had their reasons, and all of them thought, "this time is different." Well, this time isn't different.

Okay, that's a logical response. I'll respond. You are right that many have made similar claims throughout history. Are you aware that many of those claims took place when there wasn't even a nation called Israel on the planet? The fact that Israel even exists is in fact a part of the end day prophesies fulfillment. I can't predict when the end will come, but I can point to the fact that certain conditions need to align according to prophecy. Those things are aligning. Does this mean that 'for certain' end times are here, Jesus is going to return in the clouds of glory in the next few years and the promise of Salvation through Faith will be fulfilled? No, of course not. However..., it is entirely possible. "Every eye shall seem him come in the clouds of Glory." Paraphrased. Was this possible even twenty years ago, even ten?

In Jesus day people were looking forward to the fulfillment of prophecy too. John the Baptist preached in the wilderness, with public officials angry that he was "blaspheming". People had predicted since man sinned in Eden, that God would redeem man. And every prediction that Jesus would soon walk the earth, was met with ridicule. And yet, there came a time when one man in the wilderness cleared the way for the Son of God. And He did walk among us. And Christians believe he did redeem us.

And yet, a people who should have been ready, denied him. Are you so sure you aren't doing the same thing right now? I'm not saying this to condemn you or infer you are condemned for your actions here. I am just saying that we shouldn't put ourselves in the postion of denying the possibility of redemption realized.

You can’t grasp the significance of it, or it angers you to be confronted with something that makes you uncomfortable and may be very important?

Nothing like being psychoanalyzed because you disagree.

Okay, I think that's a reasonable reaction. I will admit that I think my ponderings were reasoned too, but I don't see your response to be unreasoned.

It's not that I can't grasp the "significance" - it's that I think it's total bunk.

Because the prophecies addressing Gog and Megog are total hogwash? Look, even you must admit that the nations of the earth are more or less coming out against Israel. Any person who doesn't believe in the Gog and Megog prophecies (for lack of a better title), should be scratching their head right about now. The uncanny resemplence of those prophecies should cause any thinking person to wonder how they could be that accurate if they weren't true? Total bunk? How are you any more sure of that verdict, than you are that it isn't total bunk?

As for it making me "uncomfortable"? Hardly - though I think my dissenting opinion may make a few others on this board uncomfortable. Oh well - like I told another poster, if you don't want dissent and ridicule, post it in the religion forum.

I don't so much want dissent to disappear, as I would like open minds to appear.

I would be the last one to ask you to take what I say as the Gospel, but I do think you need to ask yourself what the Gospel is, and consider these matters for yourself. And what does it harm folks, to discuss these matters at times like this? Is our salvation and what we believe something we shouldn't discuss on this forum in time of global upheavel?

I say this as a person who finds the prayer threads here almost intollerable, as I find prayer to be an individual or physically present group participation endeavor. So I'm not exactly the run out and go rah rah rah, ree ree ree, every time folks turn to God on this forum. I still believe in Him, the God of Abraham. I try to listen when things pertaining to Him come up.

First, I appreciate a reasoned reply; I get tired of the hysterical ad hominem responses and those who assume that I must be a card-carrying atheist because they've never heard of any other view of Biblical prophecy.

You are right that many have made similar claims throughout history. Are you aware that many of those claims took place when there wasn't even a nation called Israel on the planet? The fact that Israel even exists is in fact a part of the end day prophesies fulfillment.

But if your crowd are right about this, shouldn't something have happened by 1988? What was all the "this generation" stuff about? Of course it's hard to believe the end-times crowd takes Matthew 24 all that seriously anyway, since it seems clear to me that Jesus was talking about the generation to whom he was speaking, i.e. his disciples and the crowd around him.

I can't predict when the end will come, but I can point to the fact that certain conditions need to align according to prophecy.

"Fact?" No. Show me one such "fact" that doesn't depend on granting your prophetic framework as a foundational assumption.

"Every eye shall seem him come in the clouds of Glory." Paraphrased. Was this possible even twenty years ago, even ten?

You think God depends on modern technology for this? Besides, what did He mean by "every eye?" How would his immediate listeners have understood what he said?

And yet, a people who should have been ready, denied him. Are you so sure you aren't doing the same thing right now?

You'll see the humor in that question once you know what I believe. Are you so sure that you aren't doing what you're asking about? Because I think you are, and I think most Christians have been doing exactly that for hundreds of years, just like the most of the Jews in the first century did to His face. His first "coming" was not what the Jews of that time expected, and His second coming was not what you think it was to be.

Because the prophecies addressing Gog and Megog are total hogwash?

Not at all - it's because I think they're true, and have been fulfilled.

I would be the last one to ask you to take what I say as the Gospel, but I do think you need to ask yourself what the Gospel is, and consider these matters for yourself. And what does it harm folks, to discuss these matters at times like this? Is our salvation and what we believe something we shouldn't discuss on this forum in time of global upheavel?

I've spent a great deal of time considering these matters over the last couple of decades. I don't have a problem with discussing it; I just think putting it in Breaking News was a little silly. Apparently the mods eventually agreed.

I say this as a person who finds the prayer threads here almost intolerable, as I find prayer to be an individual or physically present group participation endeavor.

I'm with you on that one, though I don't begrudge them to people who find it meaningful, I guess.

So I'm not exactly the run out and go rah rah rah, ree ree ree, every time folks turn to God on this forum. I still believe in Him, the God of Abraham. I try to listen when things pertaining to Him come up.

That's mostly the approach I try to take, although obviously you and I have some different theological perspectives.