Posted on 06/02/2010 9:37:13 AM PDT by OldDeckHand
LONDON - British police said the death toll from a shooting spree in northwest England earlier on Wednesday had risen to 12.
A taxi driver described as quiet but friendly went on a shooting spree across a picturesque rural area before apparently turning the gun on himself, police said.
(Excerpt) Read more at msnbc.msn.com ...
The latest information that is coming out here is that three of the victims are the shooters own mother and twin brother and the family lawyer. There is talk of some kind of family dispute involving a will. Who can say? No doubt more information will emerge with time.
I missed that; thank you for the correction.
There will be pressure from some quarters to do just that, but the noises coming from westminster at the moment suggest that parliament will resist changing the law further. A lot depends on what the enquiry turns up.
What would happen if you used a lawfully owned firearm to defend yourself in your home. (A question, not a challenge)
I’m not a legal expert but I guess it would depend on the circumstances. In the UK if you are attacked in your own home (or indeed anywhere else for that matter) then you are perfectly entitled to righteously defend yourself, and if your life is in danger (or you feel that it is) then you are perfectly entitled to use deadly force. But if you ended up killing someone by doing that, then that would involve a coroners inquest. And if the coroner felt that your use of deadly force was inappropriate, (a verdict of unlawful killing) then you would be in trouble. This is what happened to that farmer who was imprisoned for shooting at a couple of intruders a few years back (and killing one of them). He got into trouble not for defending himself, but because he shot them in the back as they were running away from his property, and therefore they were not threatening him at the time.
I hear you and agree.
LLS
It depends on the circumstances - but people have used firearms in self defence in their own homes in the UK and been found to have acted legally in self defence.
Tony Martin was the exception, not the rule.
The key is that to use deadly force, you must have reasonable grounds to believe at the time you use it that you, or somebody you were defending, were in danger of death or serious injury. If you are, you can use deadly force.
Names of men who have done this and been found to have acted legally:
Tony Evans
Jon Pritchett
Barrie Richards
David Kent
Kenneth Hall
Ted Newberry (although he was found to have a civil liability)
Kenneth Faulkner
Those are just cases in which guns were used - there’s quite a few others where knives were used legally in self defence.
Tony Martin’s case was not the norm - the difference in his case was that the men he shot had ceased to be a threat at the time he shot them, and he admitted that to police (if he’d been sensible, he would have claimed he was still in fear of his life, because it would have been impossible to prove otherwise - instead he admitted he wasnt’).
Ping to my 124.
(As a British citizen (dual citizen) who is licenced to own a firearm and does so when I am in England for a long period of time, I make sure I know the law on this well).
Ping to my 124.
(As a British citizen (dual citizen) who is licenced to own a firearm and does so when I am in England for a long period of time, I make sure I know the law on this well).
By the way - I am actually one of the small number of people who can legally carry a handgun in the UK, and if I’d been anywhere near this and I’d been carrying, I’d have drawn it and gone after the guy.
And in all probability I’d be dead at this point. I think you are quite correct that it’s unlikely concealed carry laws, etc, would have helped in this case.
But the thing is, I’d have gone up against him with a fencepost if that’s all I had. And that would have been even less likely to work.
That's pretty much also true in Pennsylvania. Here, it's probably going to depend more on getting a sympathetic county prosecutor and it's more likely that you will.
In my state and probably most others that would buy you a world of legal crap.
At the range today, I was next to a guy firing 3 inch mag slugs and buck shot out of a short barreled shotgun. I wouldn't have wanted to take him on with my Stoeger Cougar 9mm.
Vanders9,
Just for the record, my first sentence expressed sympathy for all concerned in this horrid event. As always, it seems that those killed were decent folks with loved ones left behind. Furthermore, it seems Cumbria is generally rather peaceful, so this event is even more shocking. Neighbors will mourn the loss and then have vague feelings of worry about the strange fellow across the way. It’s a lousy situation.
I agree that any attempt to put draconian gun control laws on the yanks would be:
1) Challenged up to the Supreme Court
2) Ignored
3) Forcefully resisted, if it got to that point
I also agree that the Cumbrian event will be used to tighten UK controls further. If you recall me mentioning the history of UK control, this is part of a pattern. It does not work as loons, criminals, etc will always get them if they are desired, although being an island, you’ve a bit easier time of stemming the flow.
I think what some of us were pointing out is that permitting more people to own them, including concealed carry permits [with appropriate background & safe operator checks] might well encourage even nutters like this chap to stay home. At some point, I suspect he wanted the satisfaction of blowing other people away. Even nutters can reason and if you think it unlikely that you’d barely be able to get one shot off, maybe you just stay home or take a long walk in the woods?
After the community heals as best it can, I wish you luck in persuading your countrymen and women to not over-react. Should you desire, I would guess that there are a lot of fellow freepers who could provide links to useful data and information.
Best to you and the good people of Cumbria.
I'm sorry that social liberalism offered the victims no chance to defend themselves. Prayers up for the families of the dead.
By the way, Thank-you (UK) for for being an ally. We need you.
(shooter shoots)
British: “Hey! Let’s ban some guns!”
(shooter shoots)
British: “Hey! Let’s ban some MORE guns!”
(shooter shoots)
British: “Hey! Let’s ban some MORE guns!”
(shooter shoots)
British: “Hey! Let’s ban some MORE guns!”
(shooter shoots)
British: “Hey! Let’s ban some MORE guns!”
Well, now a shooter has shot.
What do you predict will be the OBVIOUSLY SUCCESSFUL answer???
BAN THOSE BLOODY TAXICABS, MATE!!!/s;)
>Apparently not that rare.
3 incidents since 1987??
There are more multiple shootings than that on 52nd street in philadelphia in 3 months.
Wow...great motto for the New FR! (at least the way some people see it)
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