Posted on 05/15/2010 5:49:15 AM PDT by marktwain
Some dealers are currently providing trusts to their customers to avoid the Chief Law Enforcement Officer (the "CLEO") signoff that is required for individual purchasers of Title II Firearms.
When a non-lawyer dealer fills out or creates a trust for an individual they are violating their state's unauthorized practice of law ("UPL") statutes. Many dealers and manufactures are providing generic trusts that do not address the unique issues of the NFA and often do not comply with the state requirements for proper execution.
In the past, the ATF has accepted many of these invalid trusts and approved the transfer of these firearms. Unfortunately for such individuals, if the trust is invalid, the possession that has been approved did not take place, and the individual or individuals who are in possession or using the items are in violation of the NFA.
These dealers are taking a big risk in providing improper trusts to their customers. They are not only violating the state UPL statutes, but can also be liable for violating the NFA, in addition to civil liability for the bad advice which results in the consumers' property loss, civil penalties, and/or criminal prosecution.
Be careful when copying a form or getting a trust from someone who is not a licensed attorney. Many individuals ask why we work exclusively with local licensed attorneys in each state. We do this to maintain the quality of our documents and to make sure that a licensed attorney in your state reviews the documents and makes changes based upon your local state laws.
State laws do vary. In Florida, while one can write one’s own will, the dispersal of assets of the deceased must go through probate in many cases, and the specifics for each circumstance are not at all clear to the non-lawyer.
Given the cost of Title II toys, a lawyer created trust would appear to be a “reasonable and prudent decision”.
No, I’m not a lawyer.
That’s a bit more dicey!
You need a Class 3 for those.
And it’s a bit tough to inherit a Class 3.
I am obtaining a suppressor, but fortunately my county sheriff signs off on Form 4s, so I did not have to go through the process of creating a trust.
One member of the Trust has had his class 3 for decades.
They created the trust because of of the guys lives where the local will not sign off.
What? That’s what this article is talking about, NFA firearms like suppressors and fully auto preban guns.
Yup, mostly in bigger cities. There are some benefits in going through a trust too, but I figure it was much easier to have a CLEO signoff on my Form 4.
Here is a list of counties in PA whose CLEO (Sheriff usually) will sign off on Form 4’s for NFA firearms (the “NFA Friendly” column):
Ping for later reading
I did this with my NFA stuf because sheriff arpaio makes us jump thru a bunch of BS hoops for sign offs. I just didn’t feel like putting up with his crap, so now he doesn’t know what I have.
Pretty sure giving legal advice is practicing the Law without a License..
Making a verbal and written declaration that you are not a lawyer nor offering legal advice and then Filling out a pre-existing form to create a Trust...
That’s the action of a Para-Legal. I am not sure where that is illegal anywhere in the US.. anyone?
Just make sure the Dealer makes the customer sign and verbally informs the customer they are not offering legal advice but only performing a para-legal function helping to fill out the paperwork for a Trust..
Why would that not be enough to CYA and accomplish the Goal?
W
It is the way it is for now but the notion that only a Lawyer can “Practice Law” isn’t supported anywhere I have ever found.. It is more a “Lawyers Guild” sort of thing backed by Judges who currently are with few exceptions Lawyers themselves..
The National Firearms Act is unconstitutional.
You want to mount an M60 on your Jeep? Go right ahead, I don’t care. Just make sure your kid holds their fire.
Is Sheriff Joe like that about special toys, or firearms in general, like just getting your CCW?
he’s an a-hole on an ego trip, it was similar when I got my CCW even though we are shall issue. You had to go for fingerprints on a certain day and they had to be just so etc. Since the passage of constitutional carry we no longer have to seek his permission to carry concealed so won’t have to put up with anymore of his crap.
All you need is a tax stamp. Multiple people can be in a trust. If the trust owns the firearms then if one member dies the other trustees can still have the guns without any further effort since they were issued the NFA tax stamp just like the dead person.
One thing this article doesn’t go into is that with a trust (or an LLC), you don’t need the CLEO signoff, fingerprints, or a photograph. Also, anyone can be on the trust with you and it’s legal for any of the trustees to have the gun at any time.
As mentionded in my previous post, if one trustee dies the trust retains ownership of the items and the other trustees automatically get them without having to fill out a new form 4.
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