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To: righttackle44
Why? Are you in the country illegally?

Slippery slope. If the police can stop you on the street, or in a car and 'ask for your papers'; essentially single you out for an inspection - then can they stop you, and if they see something wrong, can arrest you. You are now no longer protected from search and arrest, as the whole 'Reasonable Cause' clause has been bypassed.

Next, will they be able to search your home for illegals - oh, and by the way we found that you have an unregistered firearm... Slippery slope, folks.

Now, as a aside - I want every illegal shipped out. Don't care if they have babies, kids in school, started a business - that's their problem, not mine. They created the mess, I don't see why they should get special consideration for breaking a law, then cluttering up their actions with even more screw ups. But, the idea of randomly asking people to produce proof of citizenship should be tied to a formal Gov't sanction .... like if we are at war.

We are at war, so for now, I'd let this slide. When we 'win' the war, this law would be limited in scope. Routine traffic stops, ect. But, the law is NOT tied to any gating function - so I have some concerns that a politican will pervert this law (I know, imagine a politican perverting a law for personal gain).

58 posted on 04/24/2010 9:20:10 AM PDT by Hodar (Who needs laws .... when this "feels" so right?)
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To: Hodar

Logical fallacy
Informal
Vagueness
Slippery Slope
Alias:
•Argument of the Beard
•Fallacy of the Beard
Quote…
…[I]f once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination. Once begin upon this downward path, you never know where you are to stop. Many a man has dated his ruin from some murder or other that perhaps he thought little of at the time.
…Unquote
Source: Thomas De Quincey, “Second Paper on Murder”

Exposition:
There are two types of fallacy referred to as “slippery slopes”:

1.Causal Version:
Type:
Non Causa Pro Causa

Form:
If A happens, then by a gradual series of small steps through B, C,…, X, Y, eventually Z will happen, too.
Z should not happen.
Therefore, A should not happen, either.

Example:
If today you can take a thing like evolution and make it a crime to teach it in the public school, tomorrow you can make it a crime to teach it in the private schools, and the next year you can make it a crime to teach it to the hustings or in the church. At the next session you may ban books and the newspapers. Soon you may set Catholic against Protestant and Protestant against Protestant, and try to foist your own religion upon the minds of men. If you can do one you can do the other. Ignorance and fanaticism is ever busy and needs feeding. Always it is feeding and gloating for more. Today it is the public school teachers, tomorrow the private. The next day the preachers and the lectures, the magazines, the books, the newspapers. After [a]while, your honor, it is the setting of man against man and creed against creed until with flying banners and beating drums we are marching backward to the glorious ages of the sixteenth century when bigots lighted fagots to burn the men who dared to bring any intelligence and enlightenment and culture to the human mind.
Source: Clarence Darrow, The Scopes Trial, Day 2

Analysis

This type is based upon the claim that a controversial type of action will lead inevitably to some admittedly bad type of action. It is the slide from A to Z via the intermediate steps B through Y that is the “slope”, and the smallness of each step that makes it “slippery”.

This type of argument is by no means invariably fallacious, but the strength of the argument is inversely proportional to the number of steps between A and Z, and directly proportional to the causal strength of the connections between adjacent steps. If there are many intervening steps, and the causal connections between them are weak, or even unknown, then the resulting argument will be very weak, if not downright fallacious.


61 posted on 04/24/2010 9:28:00 AM PDT by tumblindice (The Great State of Arizona)
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To: Hodar

Yeah, I can see a lot of potential for abuse of police power here. However, I am not sure how else AZ could have made this law and still have it accomplish anything towards getting hold of these illegals and getting rid of them.


62 posted on 04/24/2010 9:29:12 AM PDT by mtrott
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To: Hodar
Slippery slope. If the police can stop you on the street, or in a car and 'ask for your papers'; essentially single you out for an inspection - then can they stop you, and if they see something wrong, can arrest you. You are now no longer protected from search and arrest, as the whole 'Reasonable Cause' clause has been bypassed...

You're lying.

104 posted on 04/26/2010 2:24:42 PM PDT by gogeo ("Every one has a right to be an idiot. He abuses the privilege!" Groucho Marx)
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