18.5" long with 9.2" barrel, and a 3 pound weight (there are many 1911s and revolvers that weigh more). And costs about 1/3rd the price!
Posted on 04/19/2010 6:44:07 PM PDT by ErnstStavroBlofeld
One area of weapons development that has seen a lot of new, but generally unnoticed, developments in the past decade is the PDW (Personal Defense Weapon, or pistol replacement). One recent example is the Rock River Arms PPS (Performance Piston System) Pistol. This is a 5.56mm weapon that uses a new internal design. It has a short gas piston, with the recoil spring and guide rod over the 21cm (8 inch) barrel. The entire weapon (which does not have a stock) is 44.5cm (17.5 inches) long and weighs 2.2 kg (5 pounds). There are single shot and full automatic versions, each costing $1,335. If you want a smaller PDW, you often have to go with smaller ammunition. Thus a recent Chinese PDW design uses a 4.6x30mm round. The new weapon is a variant of the Type 79 PFW (which uses the old Russian 7.62x25mm round). The new weapon weighs 1.6 kg (3.6 pounds) and has a 30 round, dual stack, magazine. Rate of fire is single, 400 or 600 rounds per minute. It has a Picatinny rail on top for scopes and sights. With the telescopic stock closed, the weapon is 34cm (13.4 inches) long, and 54cm (21.2 inches) with the stock extended. The weapon is gas operated with a closed bolt.
(Excerpt) Read more at strategypage.com ...
18.5" long with 9.2" barrel, and a 3 pound weight (there are many 1911s and revolvers that weigh more). And costs about 1/3rd the price!
$1400 for a .223?? I think I’ll pass...
Agreed on both counts.
I’m kinda fond of the old SKS and Mosins too.
If you are not familiar with “Gunboards”, then go to:
http://www.gunboards.com/forums/
And check it out. Lots of good stuff on lots of military, antique & collectible guns as well as a good gunsmithing forum. I lurk there a lot.
I wish the SKS had a bolt hold open catch other than the mag follower - would make it easier to load with a clip I think.
Have a Yugo that I rigged a 30 rd. TAPCO duckbill to and it works pretty well. The sights leave some to be desired however.
I notice mention of the old 7.62 X 25mm / .30 Tokarev round for some of these super-pistols; that is, IMHO, one of the most under appreciated rounds going, and often overlooked because it’s so old. It goes back to the C-1896 Mauser “Broomhandle” pistol/carbine, only slightly modified by the Russians for the TT-33 Tokarev pistol which they abandoned during the Cold war for the 9X18mm Makarov because the .30 Tok was “too powerful”. Apparently the KGB and Russian Mafia (not sure how much difference there is) still fancy the TOK as a very effective close range killer that can defeat most soft body armor.
At around 1650FPS for an 85-90gr. bullet it gives around 550 ft.Lbs of ME and penetrates like an icepick.
I don’t know if there is much that this fancy 5.7 FN round can do that the old .30 TOK can’t do darn near as well if not better.
If you have an FFL (C&R included) you can score a Romanian or Polish Tokarev for around $200 these days, and corrosive milsurp ammo is still a relative bargain. Just flush it out after firing and it’s good.
Commercial ammo is also available for it.
The TOK is a lot of pistol for the bux. I’m not sure I’d carry it as my primary street piece (although I have) due to the funky aftermarket safety (they were not originally made with a safety at all). It would make a dandy woods gun though. People take feral hogs down with the X25 and I’m confident that it would penetrate a bear’s skull if you hit it square on. There are not many handguns that will penetrate a kevlar helmet, but tests have shown that a 7.62X25 will, out of a Czech CZ-52 pistol.
Nah, I'm just happy to see you!
It’s amazingly accurate too. Not to mention, a blast to shoot.
That is very cool.
Thanks very much for the link and the pic!
They have a downloadable video of the weapon being fired available at the Kel Tec site, and there are also quite a few videos of it being fired on YouTube
Also:
” but generally unnoticed, “
thanks to 922(o), prohibition on post-’86 machineguns. You need full auto to make the paltry PDW rounds add up to something effective.
I hear you, mate. I am currently in the market for a ‘carbine’ - type of firearm because I am getting preparing for an extended amount of time in the woods, and hereabouts there are a lot of bear and cougar wandering about so I need some sort of ready responce handy. Has to be a carbine-type since a longarm-type of weapon would simply get caught up in all the dense foliage, but pistols would not do I believe so recommendations for a good weapon (Please, nothing of 5.56 or lower) with good stopping power would be appreciated.
Bears just shrug off anything below .30 cal, in My experience, so something up there in calibre -but nowhere near the 1k tag as far as the firearm is concerned- is what I am looking for.
For ridding yourself of those pesky "Jaffa", "System Lords", or "Wraith".
do they have civilian legal versions?
Nice! I love gun porn.
My Draco runs like a top and looks great with a 75-round drum.
Yeah, there is a civilian version but it has a longer barrel and, obviously, no selective fire.
Also, I don’t think civilians can get the military ammo (which penetrates most armored vests, quite nicely).
All things considered you’re better off with AR-15 or, better yet, an AR-10.
The civilian semi-auto version. If you google "FN P90" you'll get a ton of web pages. I ran across one site that was advertising a short barrel mod for the civilian version.
Look at a lever action rifle in 45-70. Marlin makes some nice ones. Pretty potent bear medicine those.
I'll pass as well. If I need something that shoots 5.56, I have two other rifles for that.
The Marlin looks fairly decent, however I am considering some real life scenarios that would not make it My first choice. For instance, I live in a heavily wooded area where a long rifle does not make much sense. Thus the carbine-type of rifle is preferred, and while the Marlin looks to be fairly short-barreled a couple of other factors come into play: firstly, when the trees and underbrush are so dense that you literally cannot see anything beyond ten yards away a lever-action is less preferable than something semi-auto. You must be able to respond quickly and swing your weapon around and up to fire in a snap, probably repeatedly. Secondly, the ammo. The 45-70 looks like a decent round, but something more common (and easily attainable) such as a .30 cal, 30-06, 30-30, or even a 35 Remington might be a better choice (and cheaper). Also, the round has to burn its powder fairly quickly in order to attain max vel by the time it exits the barrel. Any other suggestions would be welcome, I just had in mind something like a cut-down M16 or M14 variant -not some exotic 1k+ dream model, however (not that I am claiming the Marlin is). I need something easy on the pocketbook firing cheap, common ammo. At ten yards in full charge, bears do not go down on the first round so multiple quick rounds are required, and cougars have a tendancy to stalk from thick underbrush so something heavy that can penetrate and then hit the target is best. 5.56mm is not good at that.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.