Did it? Really?
First of all the chase plane was not a SU-22 ...it was a SU-30.
Also, here is the Pak Fa parked next to the SU-30 that was the chase plane:
Posted on 03/22/2010 11:21:59 PM PDT by ErnstStavroBlofeld
The flying debut of Russia’s answer to the F-22 Raptor isn’t wowing Air Force leaders.
Dubbed the T-50 or PAK-FA, the fifth-generation stealth fighter jet made its maiden flight Jan. 29 — 47 minutes over eastern Russia — and has flown at least twice since then. The twin-engine jet will replace the MiG-29 Fulcrum and Su-27 Flanker, both fourth-generation front-line fighters.
The first operational T-50s should be delivered in 2015, the same year the Air Force expects its first F-35 Lightning II. Also a fifth-generation fighter, the F-35 has a single supersonic engine and stealth capabilities.
“I didn’t see anything … that would cause me to rethink plans for the F-22 or F-35,” Air Force Secretary Michael Donley told reporters Feb. 18 at the Air Force Association’s winter conference, held in Orlando, Fla.
“Russia has a robust [aircraft industry],” Donley added. “This is not a surprise in that context.”
The PAK-FA resembles the F-22 — distinctive tilted rear tail fins and all — and has many of the same high-tech features, including digital avionics, a phased-array radar and communications equipment to link the fighter to command and control centers, according to the Russian news agency Tass.
The Air Force ordered the last of its 187 F-22s in 2009. Russia has not had a new fighter in nearly 20 years; the Indian air force is also sponsoring development of a version of the T-50.
“It looks like a plane we’ve seen before,” Gen. Roger Brady, the air boss for NATO and commander of U.S. Air Forces in Europe, said at the conference.
(Excerpt) Read more at news.combataircraft.com ...
It looked a lot like the non-stealth Su-22 Flanker chase plane that followed it through it's maiden flight.
The PAK-FA looked a lot like a big tub of guts with several very non-stealthy features, but I'm sure that it's an entirely capable combat aircraft.
I’m not too, too concerned about this new fighter, either. Still, you know what they say about hubris-especially with the breed of civilian military ‘leadership’ we have now.
You should not be. Even if the platform is exactly as specified, the fact is that it will be operated primarily by the Russian airforce and the Indian airforce. The US will not be flying against the Russians (and even IF that were to happen, fighter planes will be the least of the viable concerns), and India's relationship with the US will make it the key ally in the region. A smattering of SU-50s may be sold to some nations (e.g., say Viet Nam) but none of the nations will be potential foes, and the numbers sold to such nations anyways will be quite small (maybe 25 airframes, as compared to between 250 each for India and Russia. Thus, the remaining 500 for sale to other nations will be in far smaller lots, similar to the purchase structure of the SU-27/30 by said nations (and to be honest, with the plane expected to cost US$ 100m thereabouts, I doubt even the 500 for export will materialize).
China? No way! Neither India nor Russia will sell the SU-50 to them! In the same way that the BrahMos supersonic missile is not for sale to China! Why? Because the (and this is important) main target for weapon systems like the Brahmos and the SU-50 is China! Not the US (sorry to disappoint Cold Warriors), but China. China is the number one threat to both Russia and India (no, not Pakistan for India ...China).
Looking at the SU-50 it is even easy to see that it is oriented for that. It is a stealthy (front hemisphere only, in the same way the F-35 is also stealthy only in the front hemisphere ...the F-35 has a very unstealthy a$$. The F-22 in comparison is all-aspect stealth), it can supercruise (like the F-22 and unlike the F-35), has extreme mobility, has a long combat radius, short take off and landing, and is targeted at being beyond lethal to anything that the Chinese have. Currently the chinese operate Russian built SU-27s and SU-30s (which they went ahead and, to the chagrin of the Russians, 'developed' the J-11 which is a SU-30 clone ....this is one of the reasons the Russians refused to sell to the Chinese the SU-33 naval Flanker), as well as the J-10. Those 4 planes (27, 30, J 11, 10) are the spear edge of the Chinese airforce. Now, the Indian SU-30MKI is better than any of those, as are the SU-35s that Russia wants to slooooooowwwwwwlllllyyyyyy bring into operation. However, as good as they are ....they are not good enough considering the numbers China thinks in. It is the same way that the Block 60 F-16 that the UAE got is the BEST Viper in the world, with its AESA, advanced avionics and all that ....but even if it is much better than a Block 52, it is not that much better that the UAE can go about thinking it could even defeat Turkish F-16s!
Thus, the Pak-Fa project leading to the SU-50.
It will be something that the Chinese do not have an answer to. It will make even the most advanced J-10 variant the Chinese can come with immediately obsolete.
Now, you probably know that China is developing its own stealthy aircraft ...the JX-X. Well, I've seen some concepts of the J-12/13, and that thing will not even be as stealthy as the Pak Fa. However, even if it came close you can see the Russian approach towards being better than it ....how? For instance, incorporating up to 5 radars in the SU-50 (leading edge of the wings, chin of the aircraft) operating in L mode (as opposed to the main AESA which will be X mode). The L is to better detect stealthy targets.
As I said, the SU-50 is not a threat. Unless you are China. It is an anti-Chinese solution for India and Russia, and in that regard it is perfect. As for flying against Raptors ....only in the fantasies of those that think Russia and the US will ever confront each other directly. Weirdly, I'd even expect the two nations to be allies again in the future against a China that grew too far too fast ....but that's for another day.
Did it? Really?
First of all the chase plane was not a SU-22 ...it was a SU-30.
Also, here is the Pak Fa parked next to the SU-30 that was the chase plane:
LOL!@!
It’s a 4.5 generation jet. It’s RCS is half a square meter — way bigger than the insect or small bird signature of an F-22.
And that’s what their defense ministry says. So I doubt it’s even half a square meter from every aspect.
Actually that was what an Indian media journalist said. 0.5m2 is what something like the Eurofighter Typhoon or the Rafale have, with their canards and vertical stabilizer and lack of internal weapon bays. It is interesting how a quote from a journalist has been really stretcted.
According to a Lockheed Martin engineer quoted at F-16.net, the Pak Fa (once it has been finalized and with RAM ...remember what flew was a prototype) would have the frontal RCS of a metal golf ball. Not even close as good as that of the Raptor, but better than any (by far) 4 gen and 4.5 gen airframe out there.
As for gen 5 or not ....by your estimations the F35 is also not gen 5 then. It only has frontal stealth as well (in the rear hemisphere it is truly unstealthy), only optimized against X band radar, and cannot supercruise.
Golfball, Hummingbird, Insect - 0,5 m² crosssections - in X-Band or in lower frequencies....
There’s no effective way you can hide a fast moving aircraft by the laws of physics.
If it’s fast it is hot.
If it has mass it will reflect radar.
It will reflect light in the visible range.
You can hear it.
You can detect its turbulences, its chemical trail. It’s even possible to detect it because of its stealthyness - just not by todays equippment fielded.
Good stealth concepts are only for the existing tactical environment in those scenarios that they are made to influence.
If they are less cost effective in comparison to non-stealthy platforms - maybe because their availability is to low or their maintenance concept is faulty or the fielding of a cost effective counter part is to be expected it’s not a big winner and there are possibly better concepts for penetrating a well guarded air space like swarming it with drones and/or HARMS (on drones) and/or jamming it completely.
Would it be an unrisky job to raid russias capital today with a B2, if you gave the russians a one month warning ?
The Air Force ordered the last of its 187 F-22s in 2009.
Obanana ordered them cut.
What a fool;
Original plan was for 750 of the finest fighters in the world but ....
Decide for yourself.
Trillions for welfare, not a penny for F-22s !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm not sure that the F-35 is really comparable in intended mission, though, is it?
Of course it's not an air superiority super-fighter; but with its VTOL and carrier variants, it promises to be one extremely versatile land-sea tactical fighter/ground attack/sea control aircraft. It wasn't intended to be a Master of any one trade, but if it's a genuinely-good Jack of several important trades, then I'm glad that we're going to have a fair lot of them in inventory.
I'm aware it's having teething troubles in development with delays and cost overruns, but from what I've read it is (at least) pretty well achieving its intended capabilities.
not a fool if it is intentional in order to weaken us.
No, it was definitely from a defense ministry official. A journalist would have to make a wild guess, but this was no guess.
And you believed this guy claiming to work for Lockheed, posting in an unofficial capacity on an Internet forum, over the Russians themselves.
I think you are desperate.
I am not giving an opinion - the 0.5m2 was an Indian journalist.
”Sukhoi’s FGFA prototype, which is expected to make its first flight within weeks, is a true stealth aircraft, almost invisible to enemy radar. According to a defence ministry official, “It is an amazing looking aircraft. It has a Radar Cross Section (RCS) of just 0.5 square metre as compared to the Su-30MKI’s RCS of about 20 square metres.”
[That means that while a Su-30MKI would be as visible to enemy radar as a metal object 5 metres X 4 metres in dimension, the FGFA’s radar signature would be just 1/40th of that.]
Obviously the opinion did not come from an Indian journalist, it came from the designers. And it certainly did not come from some guy in his pajamas
In fact, I'll do one better. His name is Ajai Shukla, and he works for the Weekly Standard.
In his blog this is what he had to say when queried about the rather high RCS number for a 'stealthy' airplane:
'This talk about metal golf balls and metal marbles does not impress me. It could be disinformation, sales talk, vendor propaganda, or a mixture of all of them. A platform's real RCS is seldom revealed. The figure that I have is from an MoD source, who has, in turn, heard it from a Sukhoi designer at KnAAPO. I would not bet my life that the figure is entirely accurate. APPEAL: Can one of our engineer readers please explain IN SIMPLE, UNDERSTANDABLE LANGUAGE, the nuances of RCS?'
Now, Sukhoi designed the forward-swept winged Berkut (S-37) a number of years ago ...the RCS that SUKHOI officially gave was 0.3m2. The Berkut was basically a forward winged SU-30 in most respects, yet they managed to bring it down to that. The Eurofighter Typhoon and Rafale have an RCS of about 0.5m2. The Pak Fa is smaller than the SU-30, has obvious shaping, internal bays, and yet ends up with 0.5m2?
Will the Pak Fa ever approach the RCS of the Raptor? Never, the ATF program that gave rise to the F-22 was extremely stringent in what it needed. Will it ever approach that of the F-35? Even in that area probably not. However, it is not Rafale.
He works for Business Standard not Weekly Standard.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.