Posted on 02/25/2010 1:17:13 AM PST by jerry557
Pound sand Euro-Wienies!
I am the same, only because DNA has exonerated a few people though. I’m of the thought that I’d rather see 100 go free than one innocent put to death. However if I knew for certain that someone killed my child, I’d be so pro-killing them myself!
“I’d say that life in prison does that just as well.”
The problem is that everyone understands there is rarely a “life in prison” anymore. As time goes on, the penal system gets more forgiving.
Thanks for replying. I share your views.
I would like to see a real ‘life without parole’. Not that I am thirsty for punishment... but these days criminals just know so much better how to ‘play the system’, and how to come across as someone who’s a victim of life’s circumstances; and lawyers know how to sneak through so many mazes and holes in the procedures. The consequence of all this is that criminals start to calculate. What is ‘life’? With good behaviour it’ll be... what? 15 years? 10 years? It’s the beginning of the end.
Yep, if someone very near me were killed, I’d have your very feelings too. It’s what makes us human in the end.
“I must confess one thing here, which is important. I am a Christian who does not believe in Hell. That is crucial in explaining my position.”
I couldn’t get past that statement, you’re either a christain who believes in the word of God, or you’re not. The bible is the word of God, not just bits and pieces.
I for one don’t want to see taxpayers paying to lock someone up for life after a horrendous crime has been committed. A good part of the solution would be to see more stories with happy endings... ie: rapist breaks into to home to rape/pillage/plunder, instead he gets a late night snack of 230grain .45 rounds.
“I’m of the thought that I’d rather see 100 go free than one innocent put to death. “
So, you give no consideration to the potential victims of those you so readily agree to release. There are countless cases of vicious rapes and murders by people who were realized by those with your standards.
Justice is no better than the people that administer it. you determine the facts, to the best of your ability, and then determine if the accused is guilty as charged. This has to be done as dispassionately as possible,
If the decision is based on emotion (as yours apparently is) then the results will be biased, for or against the accused. This will increase the chance of an innocent person losing their freedom, or their life, or a guilty person will be released to commit addition crimes.
It is a grave but it must be done. If justice is not dispensed by the courts then, at some point, punishment will be dispensed by mobs.
Actually, John Lott, in Freedomnomics, cites a study that shows that every execution deters about 4 murders.
So, yes, it works. We just don’t use it enough.
Ah now I disagree with you there. People who are "nut cases" aren't detered by anything, because they are not rational. Neither is it just to execute them, because they literally don't understand what they have done wrong. The people we are seeking to deter are those who quite clearly and cold-bloodedly work out that killing someone is worthwhile and/or profitable to them.
Well, I did not manufacture a Bible of my own, for sure. There are various readings of the Bible, and different interpretations. The words used in the Bible, often read as ‘hell’, really don’t have to mean what Reformist interpretators made them out to be. The Hebrew and Ancient Greek words I am referring to may very well mean just: ‘garbage heap’, places where garbage was burnt for hygienic reasons, but also places where the bodies of executed criminals were disposed of. Very earthly places, in other words.
For me, that is an important difference. There are organized religious communities who see it exactly as I wrote: Jehovah’s Witnesses is just one of these.
Thanks anyway for your post.
Interesting. I will surely seek that out.
Thanks, A&M.
The point about the fantasy of "curing" criminals is well taken. Like all the most pernicious lies, it is strengthened by an element of truth. A lot of people DO drift into crime, and as is the nature of these things, once you've gone down that route, it becomes increasingly harder to get back to the straight and narrow. Such people could be said to be "victims" and can be "cured", if they choose to accept that help. Unfortunately for the naive well-meaning sociologists, there is also real elemental evil in this world, and there are lots of really violent cynical criminals out there who either can't, or won't reform. And society has to be protected from such individuals.
I would have death be an option for criminals who have a record of two or more prior violent felonies. This way, even if it turns out he didn't commit the crime he is executed for, I won't be particularly upset as we will not have executed a complete innocent.
It is the habitual, career criminals whose execution would most benefit society. I would even have death be a sentencing option presented to the jury for people convicted of 5 or more felonies, just for the fact of being a career violent felon.
In the first paragraph of my prior post, I meant death for murderers. In the second, I meant death for habitual violent felons, even non-murderers.
I take your point about all those potential victims of the guilty one set free, but consider - you are putting yourself into their place. Supposing the innocent man who gets convicted is one Peter Horry?
I agree with you that the courts need to dispense justice, otherwise people will seek their own.
It seems to me that the big disconnect between Europeans and Americans over the death penalty is that Europeans see it as a means by which people in power eliminate political and religious enemies while Americans see it as a punishment for crime.
Think about it- America does not have a Great Purge, Halocaust, Reign of Terror, or other such stain on its history. Yes, we did mean things to the Indians and Americans of Japanese ancestry, but we never sent them to extermination camps.
William Wallace was drawn, quartered and beheaded. Robert E Lee became a unversity president.
The Sons of Liberty didn’t guillotine Loyalists on Boston Common.
Oliver Cromwell had Charles I beheaded. FDR had a dam named after Hoover.
When Europeans think of the death penalty, they think of a tool of political, religious and social retribution. When Americans think of it, they think of Ted Bundi, Tim McVeigh and Danny Rolling.
I am in full agreement.
“Supposing the innocent man who gets convicted is one Peter Horry?”
In trying to make this personal you are proving my point, your position is based on emotion not a rational analysis.
If the accused is on Peter Horry, whom only I may have knowledge of my guilt/innocence, I would hope for honest, competent investigators, a good lawyer, and an objective jury.... a good alibi wouldn’t hurt. That is all even I should expect from the courts.
You also are trying to make guilt/innocence an absolute, that is rarely the case and is in fact what is to be determined by the court. This is, as I have stated, a grave responsibility that isn’t always given the assiduousness it deserves.
Thanks for your post and correction. Although I can’t instantaneously agree, I can assert the validity of the points you raise, and also say that I am pleasantly surprised about the underpinnings you give for your ideas. It’s really good rational reasoning in matters that inevitably come with lots of difficult emotions.
A&M
Islamists will sign onto any treaty that impairs their enemies’ societies,
but they sign the treaty with the caveat that the requirements of the treaty may not conflict with Sharia Law, which basically nullifies all the treaties they sign.
That sounds all nice and good and pro-life and all,
but what of the innocent victims that some of these people
will prey on once they're released?
I would be willing to ditch the death penalty, in exchange for life without parole on a deserted island.
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