Posted on 02/20/2010 7:20:02 AM PST by Clairity
There are two derailing items that leave reconciliation neutered: The Byrd Rule and the fact that any senator can also bring up any new amendment to the bill.
The Byrd rule can be enacted by any senator....any single senator can object to any part of the bill and have it removed....and the only way it get reinstalled is for 60 votes to override the removal. The final vote may only need a simple majority...but before you get there every single item can be challenged and you need 60 votes for it to stay in the bill. Can you imagine a 60 vote tally on every single element of Obamacare? If it ever gets to reconciliation, I hope that some republican objects with line one of the first page of this goat rodeo.
The second element to stretch this out for months is that any republican senator can add any amendment to the bill...and now it would be up to the democrats to object to that amendment and have it removed....and another 60 vote tally would have to be taken to see if it stayed or was officially removed.
Can you imagine how many 60 vote tallys could come out of a reconciliation activity if the republicans are objecting to everything already in there and the democrats are objecting to any new republican amendments?
This whole deal is to provide air cover for the democrats who can now say they tried.....they asked for a republican plan (note they have already pulled their plan together without any republican input). And when the Republicans do show up with something (I hope they put something forward with some real meat)....it will probably be shunned by Obama.....
My bet is that it dies a slow death......and never goes to reconciliation.....there is a real good chance that Nancy does not have the house votes any more anyway....but rattling their reconciliation sword says that they did everything they could, but those nasty republicans did not play......
Otherwise how do you defend that you had the house, the senate and the White House and got NOTHING done? They are in full recovery mode...trying to paint a good a picture as possible before the 2010 November tsunami that is approaching....
“5 years all the so-called benefits and taxes die....”
there ARE NO benefits....at least scheduled until 2014...this is a TAX BILL...(retroactive to January 01, 2010) and it is critical to the fall elections...without it...they haven’t the cash to put on the street for the balance of the “stimulus” packaged they need to GOTV with ACORN and SEIU
I believe that that the Byrd Rule isn’t as helpful as some might think. This is from wiki:
“Any senator may raise a procedural objection to a provision believed to be extraneous, which will then be ruled on by the presiding senator. A vote of 60 senators is required to overturn the ruling.”
Thus, a Republican Senator may raise a procedural objection, but it is the Senator who is currently sitting as the President of Senate (always part of the majority party) who rules whether or not the provision is actually extraneous.
To overule the ruling from the chair (which will always be a Democrat during the period that this bill might be considered), there must be 60 Senators voting thusly, to overule.
I republicans can stall it and drag it out for a few months then the dimocrats can see that they will not win re-election if they vote for it and will vote to save their jobs?
Exactly. The fact that the Dems would even try this bluff tells you what they think of the members of the senate. They actually believe they can apply more pressure through threats and bribes than the pressure the American people are putting on the members of congress right now.
They’ve been drinking too much of their own kool aid.
It sounds to me that obama is trying to become dicktator (intentional) of the U.S.
bm
That site is garbage and full of half truths and lies on dozens of topics. And a Lefty runs it.
I agree. McConnel is as close to being a Rino as you can without declaring yourself as one. He has no backbone at all. He always caves in. We need a Sen. DeMint to lead this party in the Senate.
No doubt about it. It is his preferred MO for using power. Put nothing past these folks as they continue to usurp power and reinvent our Constitution or just trash it altogether. They are patient; and they are determined; and they are ruthless. Count nothihng out for 2012. And they have no intention of giving up the gound thus far taken and the power seat they hold.
Good find, thanks for mentioning it.
What happened in Latin America can happen here.
I put the title you mentioned into Google and found the same article on a web page.
Here is the link for those interested (sorry the title is in caps on the page, I am just copying and pasting):
PRESIDENTIAL COUPS D’ETAT AND REGIME CHANGE
IN LATIN AMERICAN AND SOVIET SUCCESSOR STATES
by Maxwell A. Cameron
Associate Professor
School of International Affairs
Carleton University
http://vm.uconn.edu/~kingston/Cameron.htm
Here is the Abstract:
What safeguards democracy when the demos allows its own voice to be silenced? In Latin American and Soviet successor states this problem took a novel form in the 1990s: that of the self-inflicted presidential coup d’ètat, or autogolpe. In Peru, Guatemala, and Russia, presidents closed congress, suspended the constitution, and sought to rule by decree until referenda or new legislative elections could be held to ratify a regime with broader executive powers. Three contrasting traditions of democratic theory are assessed in light of autogolpes: electoral, liberal, and deliberative democracy. Each offers a different lesson on the implications of autogolpes for electoral competition and parties, legislative-executive relations, the independence of the judiciary and the rule of law, civil-military relations, and the powers of the presidency. Based on this assessment, the article concludes that more scholarly attention must be given to the quality of democracy, its institutional diversity, and the complex connections between different attributes of democratic regimes.
Of course they think there is a way around the Byrd rule and it is simply 3 words. “You are overruled.”
Well when the Pubs are back in control can we use this same rule to reverse health care and make the Bush tax cuts permanent via “reconcilliation?”
McConnell is not perfect. But IMO he gets something of an unfair rap here. If he always caved in, Obamacare would be law.
And the fact that Guantanamo Bay has not closed and probably won't is largely due to him.
I'm glad he's in charge at the moment.
By by Byrdy...dead as a dodo...
I wish I knew Senate rules or where to look them up. I think now would be a very good time for anyone who knows them to comb through and find anything to stop this!
Tennessee has joined several other states in trying to pass a Health Care Freedom Act. NO COLAs for granny, retired Military or retired fed employees. BIG NEW fees for Tricare for Life retired over 65 Military's secondary health ins. (DOD bill already passed, delayed but goes into effect 2011)
New Dem mantra: Woof, woof eat dog food granny....ala let them eat cake.
Friday, February 19, 2010
Obama says slight fix will extend Social Security
http://townhall.com/news/us/2010/02/19/obama_says_slight_fix_will_extend_social_security
TRI CARE FOR LIFE This from a google search:
http://economicspolitics.blogspot.com/2009/05/tricare-for-life-is-obama-trying-to.html
This option would help reduce the costs of TFL, as well as costs for Medicare, by introducing minimum out-of pocket requirements for beneficiaries. Under this option, TFL would not cover any of the first $525 of an enrollee’s cost-sharing liabilities for calendar year 2011 and would limit coverage to 50 percent of the next $4,725 in Medicare cost sharing that the beneficiary incurred. (Because all further cost sharing would be covered by TFL, enrollees could not pay more than $2,888 in cost sharing in that year.)
http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/99xx/doc9925/12-18-HealthOptions.pdf
http://www.vawatchdog.org/09/hcva09/hcva110609-1.htm
Bill Would Restrict Veterans’ Health Care Options 11/06/09
Buyer and McKeon Offer Amendments to Protect Veterans and TRICARE Beneficiaries
Congress plans to block Tricare fee increases
http://www.armytimes.com/news/2009/10/military_tricarefees_blocked_100709w
By Rick Maze - Staff writer, Oct 7, 2009
Tricare fee increases imposed last week by the Defense Department will be repealed by a provision of the compromise 2010 defense authorization bill unveiled Wednesday by House and Senate negotiators.
Snip
The fee increases were announced on Sept. 30 and took effect on Oct. 1, but the defense bill, HR 2647, includes a provision barring any fee increases until the start of fiscal 2011.
Snip
Retired Army Maj. Gen. Bill Matz, president of the National Association for Uniformed Services, said the announcement of fee increases was shocking considering that the Obama administration promised earlier this year to hold off on any new fee Tricare fee increases until fiscal 2011.
“President Obama and DoD assured NAUS and the entire military family earlier this year that there would rightly be no increases in any Tricare fees” in fiscal 2010, Matz said. “We took them at their word, and I can’t believe that a co-pay increase like this was allowed to go forward,” he added.
Bambi doesn't keep his promises...so buyer beware
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.