Posted on 02/16/2010 4:32:25 PM PST by Libloather
Pension limits could trigger 'mass exodus' of state workers
Last updated: Sunday February 14, 2010, 11:56 AM
BY LISA FLEISHER AND CHRIS MEGERIAN
State House Bureau
New Jersey's public workers who are eligible to retire are wondering if now is the time to get out, as Governor Christie targets benefits in fiery speeches.
And now that Republicans and Democrats have introduced a four-bill package to trim pensions and benefits, union officials warn that New Jersey's most-experienced police officers, firefighters and municipal workers will flee the system before the changes take effect.
"You're going to see a mass exodus," said Anthony Wieners, president of the New Jersey State Policemen's Benevolent Association, which represents 33,000 officers. "They're moving forward on this too quickly. They're not thinking it out properly."
Although the proposed pension changes would largely affect future workers, they also would require all public employees — rather than just state workers — to contribute at least 1.5 percent of their salaries toward health benefits now and when they retire.
The reform proposal also includes banning future part-timers from the pension system, and it would readjust the number of years used to calculate benefits, resulting in smaller checks. And payouts for unused sick leave — which can run into six figures for some public employees — would be capped at $15,000.
On Friday, Christie ruled out shrinking the pensions of current retirees. But the governor's tough talk about curbing workers' benefits — repeated in his Thursday address to the Legislature about the state budget crisis — have union officials worried that he's just warming up.
'A lot of fear'
"There is a lot of fear," said Hetty Rosenstein, state director at the Communications Workers of America, which represents 55,000 public employees. "They don't feel confident that their work will be respected and protected."
Municipal, pension and union officials say there are no hard numbers showing an uptick in retirement requests, and that it's too early to tell how many will put in for it. But some who have worked long enough say they are retiring or considering it.
Firefighters across the state described a nervousness among the most-veteran members. "I'm getting calls from all of my senior guys," said North Hudson Regional Fire and Rescue Capt. Brian McGorty, also a union official. "We're going to see quite a few of them put their papers in."
Even though employees might leave — taking their institutional knowledge with them — mayors and state leaders say they agree with Christie's contention that they need to remake a pension system too generous for the state budget to handle.
Mayors say the proposed pension changes are not enough to prompt a mass exit. "There's nobody that's going to run out the door for 1.5 percent of their pension," said Elizabeth Mayor J. Christian Bollwage, a Democrat. "It's smoke and mirrors. It does absolutely nothing."
Christie says state government "cannot continue to sustain" current benefit packages. The pension system is underfunded by at least $34.4 billion, according to a Treasury Department snapshot taken in June 2008. An updated report is due Feb. 25.
Unions blame state
Workers and union leaders say the underfunding is the state's own fault. For nearly 20 years, governors of both parties withheld payments into the account. Christie said Thursday the state would withhold a small payment — $100 million, which is 4 percent of the more than $2 billion annual payment recommended.
The two recessions and stock market collapses of the last decade have had an even more devastating effect on the system, state pension director Fred Beaver said.
Some public workers say they're being vilified by politicians who cite extreme examples of big pension payouts.
"The majority of the average police officers and firefighters, they don't get those payouts." said East Orange Deputy Fire Chief Paul Daly, a 25-year veteran.
Steve Baker, spokesman for the New Jersey Education Association, which represents almost 120,000 teachers, said he's worried new people will be discouraged from teaching careers. "Everything that's done changes the calculation for whether this is a good career choice," he said. "At some point, people cross the line and say, I can't afford to do this."
Timothy Fleming, who retired from the Hunterdon County Department of Corrections after just over 25 years, said pension and health benefits are a primary reason people work for the government.
"We weren't going to be making a tremendous amount of money," he said. "A lot of people go into public service if you know you're going to get good benefits."
Why not?
A local double dipper fireman is making over $300,000 after doing his first 20 years. Let em eat cake. Chris Christie is doing what other states need to do. State workers deserve fair pay but they should not be unionized.
“On Friday, Christie ruled out shrinking the pensions of current retirees.”
That is because he CAN’T by New Jersey Constitution .If he did attempt it( Constitution change ) blood would flow even in the People’s Republic of New Jersey ! You wouldn’t believe how many armed and pissed off citizens there are in New Jersey !
The Unions can bloviate all they want, they won't be missed.
Steve Baker, spokesman for the New Jersey Education Association, which represents almost 120,000 teachers
Why the HELL do we have this many union workers employed? Why do we have the numerical equivalent of 17 Infantry Divisions in representing "Communications Workers" and "Teachers?"
Ike barely had 175,000 men during the D-Day invasion, and that included American, French, Canadian, and British troops.
This is insane.
The teachers and school administrators are the primary problem. They also had the most clout in Trenton - and they used it to feather their own bed. Moreover, they vote 90%+ for Democrats, and their union leadership is completely Democrat.
in nys, they don't tax the public retirees (state income tax)o the least....the very least...the states can do is to tax heavily public retirees .....really go after them if they are double and triple dipping...
the line has been drawn between the haves and the havenots...
You can thank JFK for signing Executive Order 10,988 for
this, it allowed civil servants to form unions.
Now, are all the firemen around your area "double dippers"?
Is this one person or a group?
OMG!! Tens of thousands of NJ civil serpents will stop working. Please notify the taxpayers of the state when you do so. It would be a real shame if they continued paying your bloated salaries and benefits for months before they realized you had stopped whatever it is you do. The first sign would probably be a wave of donut shop bankrupties, which might not happen for months.
JFK did not author or sign an executive order in their case.
Time to study "federal employee union history".
The average federal salary (including benefits) is set to grow from $72,800 in 2008 to $75,419 in 2010, CBS reported. But the real action isn’t in what government employees are being paid today; it’s in what they’re being promised for tomorrow.
Public pensions have swollen to unrecognizable proportions during the last decade. In June 2005, BusinessWeek reported that “more than 14 million public servants and 6 million retirees are owed $2.37 trillion by more than 2,000 different states, cities and agencies,” numbers that have risen since then. State and local pension payouts, the magazine found, had increased 50 percent in just five years.
These huge pension increases have eaten away at public finances, most spectacularly in California, where a bipartisan bill that passed virtually without debate unleashed the odious “3 percent at 50” retirement plan in 1999. Under this plan, at age 50 many categories of public employees are eligible for 3 percent of their final year’s pay multiplied by the number of years they’ve worked. So if a police officer starts working at age 20, he can retire at 50 with 90 percent of his final salary until he dies, and then his spouse receives that money for the rest of her life. Even during the economic crisis, “3 percent at 50” and the forces behind it have only become more entrenched. (Excerpt) Read more at reason.com ...
==================================
Teachers are the greediest. For example, the relatively small state of New Jersey has 567 municipalities contained in 21 counties. But NJ has 610 school districts and 900 high paid superintendents and assistant superintendents, lawyers staff......even in places with only one school. There is no accountability, no oversight and no protection for taxpayers.
In one poor school district, that is subsidized by statewide taxpayers, the Supt of Schools sucked up a $173,389 annual salary plus perks....AND wrote herself a $740,000 retirement package---(which does not include her state pension of about $125,000 per year, six-figure bonuses and lifetime family health benefits).
Her BASE SEVERANCE PACKAGE: $556,290 (to be paid in five yearly installments so she can evade taxes). She gamed the system, contriving that she had UNUSED SICK DAYS: $170,137 (paid out in three yearly installments to evade taxes) and supposedly had UNUSED VACATION DAYS totaling $14,449.
She also employed her husband-----nobody knows how much money she scammed for him.
A NJ superintendent's contract also includes payments for travel, meals, lodging, life insurance, cars, free maintenance and auto insurance, payment for personal days, etc, etc, etc. Other Supt contracts include annuities and six-figure bonuses. All payouts structured to evade taxes.
One state report showed these school thieves routinely filed fraudulent state documents to hide stratospheric pay deals from taxpayers. This is prosecutable and incurs felony charges for first-degree tampering with public records, first-degree offering of a false instrument for filing, fourth-degree grand larceny, and first-degree falsifying of official records.
You have a lot of Pubbies that work in union jobs in New Jersey.They finally decided to vote and Christie was elected.
Get off feeding at the public trough.
Typically “double-dipping” is when a public employee is getting multiple income streams from his government employer. He’s probably referring to a “retired” firefighter who is getting a pension check and is employed by the government in some other capacity.
Yet another "double dipper" could be a federal government retiree who got a job with a local car dealer.
A triple dipper could be a guy with an annuity from Union Carbide, another annuity from TRW, and a seat on the Board of Directors of Ford Motor.
Most government employees do not work for the federal government. Even within the federal government, the largest single agency is USPS (they deliver your mail).
Salaries are generally higher in the federal government because they are prohibited from tapping into the ranks of those with felony convictions, who are illiterate, or on drugs.
State and local governments, to a degree, appear to thrive on a steady diet of druggies and thieves. Teachers unions protect those of their number who get caught murdering children (among other things).
It’s my understanding that retired soldiers can’t “double-dip” anymore, at least since the 1980s. They have to make a choice between which one they want, principle of offset.
The net effect is essentially DOD is offloading their pension requirement on the new employer, albeit another government agency.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.