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'Algebra-for-All' Push Found to Yield Poor Results
Education Week ^ | February 9, 2010 | Debra Viadero

Posted on 02/11/2010 5:22:00 AM PST by reaganaut1

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To: SonOfDarkSkies

I was homeschooled and my daughter will be too. Nobody is going to teach her that math is too hard for girls, or just in general. We’ll work on algebraic concepts while she’s still mastering multiplication and division, just as an introduction and to show her how it fits in the real world.


41 posted on 02/11/2010 6:47:44 AM PST by JenB
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To: wildbill
I am now 69 years old and retired after years of working in sales in the insurance industry, an industry that is rife with numbers. At no time in my life since high school have I ever needed the ability to do algebra equasions. The ability to use the four basic math functions of add, subtract, multiply and divide and work out percentages were all that was required in the real world. The years of algebraic education that were deemed necessary for admission to college were as useful as studies into phrenology or astrology might have been. For an education in logical reasoning I would have better off studying logic itself. I’m not saying that algebra isn’t a necessary study for those with the bent or the need, ie. engineers, but for most of us, it is simply excess baggage that we are mandated to take by the educational establishment.

Supposed you were selling life insurance and a client asked you to compare a whole life policy to "buy term and invest the difference". One would make a spreadsheet to compare the two scenarios, and that spreadsheet would effectively be using algebra. Lots of businesspeople need to use algebra, although they may not be conscious that they are doing so.

42 posted on 02/11/2010 6:54:30 AM PST by reaganaut1
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To: reaganaut1
The first thing they have to learn and understand is: addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division. The basics of all math.
43 posted on 02/11/2010 7:01:46 AM PST by chainsaw ("When you subsidize poverty and failure, you get more of both." - James Dale Davidson)
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To: JenB

“Why are math skills viewed as optional but reading and writing are not?”

Aha! A false premise. I never said that math skills were optional. In fact I specified the ones I thought were required for most people for most tasks.

And the reason that reading and writing are not optional is that we couldn’t have this conversation if we couldn’t use them to communicate. I don’t think you could reduce this conversation to a mathematical formula.


44 posted on 02/11/2010 7:02:31 AM PST by wildbill (You're just jealous because the Voices talk only to me.)
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To: wildbill
Addition, etc, are the building blocks of math. They are like spelling and grammar to writing. Algebra is where you first start stringing them together to really solve problems. I'd compare it to trying to hold a conversation. You can manage "how are you" and "give me that" without much trouble, but once you start actually conversing - asking "So what do you think about X" you need a different level of skill. Maybe you don't realize you are doing it, but any time you compare two prices, the reasoning you are doing there is algebra. Algebraic thinking tells you which of your basic math tools to apply to a situation.

Also, percentages are algebra. "What percent of 50 is 16" is your classic basic algebra statement.

45 posted on 02/11/2010 7:07:07 AM PST by JenB
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To: reaganaut1

A lot of money is wasted on higher education today. Based on my own experience as a college grad, most young people do not devote the time and energy commensurate with the high cost of a college education. Their interests lie elsewhere at that stage of their lives. If they did a couple of years in the work force, while they were sorting out their social lives, and learned the ways of the world, a practical curiosity might evolve. They would discover something that they would really like to know more about. That’s the time to enter college. Most of these curiosities will probably not involve a knowledge of algebra. I remember asking a math professor uncle who was explaining some formula, “Why would I ever have to know that?”. He told me I would need it to make a tin can. Making tin cans was not part of my life plan. No more algebra for me. After graduating and working for a while, I developed more of a curiosity politically and vaguely remembered a college history professor teaching about the Middle East. I wished that I had paid more attention. I’m sure many of us have had similar experiences and would be much more likely to enjoy a class today, for the sake of knowledge on a subject of interest, than when we were 18.


46 posted on 02/11/2010 7:13:24 AM PST by Josephat
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To: Tax-chick
"back in the day"

The school you went to taught fractions in the second grade? My school didn't start teaching fractions until the sixth. What school did you go to?

47 posted on 02/11/2010 7:27:07 AM PST by driftless2 (for long term happiness, learn how to play the accordion)
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To: SoothingDave; reaganaut1; Tax-chick; Jacquerie; refermech; super7man; Trailerpark Badass; ...

Point 1. Our highly trained education professionals have adopted curricula that make it virtually impossible for children who are not truly gifted to learn advanced math. Most children today have no grasp of basic arithmetic math facts because most of our highly trained education professionals don’t know them and have been taught in schools of education that math facts are not important (we have calculators after all). Government schools, their curricula, and the mentally challenged employees that infest them are by far the biggest barrier to math literacy in this country. This is just one of the 413 reasons no child should be left behind in government schools.

Point 2: What courses are called by our highly trained education professionals and what the courses actually are are very different things. Course “labelling” is a marketing exercise. Those who have looked into the matter have found that what is called “algebra” for the sake of maintaining parents’ self-esteem and support for the government school money pit is actually more like 6th grade arithmetic. No school district would dare to use Saxon math in an alleged “algebra for all” jihad because Saxon’s 2 algebra books offer, well, real algebra. The left hand side of the bell curve clearly can’t manage most of the material, and certainly not in 8th and 9th grades. A 14 year-old with an IQ of 100 may have many gifts and be a valuable, wonderful human being, but it is not reasonable to think that he or she will be able to work problems involving polar coordinates and vectors at that age, assuming that there are enough comptent teachers to provide the necessary instruction (the small cadre of competent high school math teachers are now rolling on the floor laughing at the thought of their esteemed colleagues attempting to teach that material). Moreover, our highly trained education professionals are to a large extent adult denizens of the left hand side of the bell curve, don’t like math, never learned math, can’t do math, and therefore can’t teach math.

At some point parents will have to confront the reality of what the government schools really are. This is just one of the problems.


48 posted on 02/11/2010 7:28:00 AM PST by achilles2000 (Shouting "fire" in a burning building is doing everyone a favor...whether they like it or not)
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To: JenB
I am amazed at all the people on this thread who don't want all children to learn algebra. Algebra is basic math. It doesn't get any lower than that. Maybe the name is what is bothering you. My husband and I go the Wal Mart and see a 12 pack of sodas for 2.88, while the 24 pack is 7.49 on sale. Yet people are buying the 24 pack. Not knowing algebra is like a tax on stupid people.

I'm going to ride this pony a little more. Why should we all become more proficient in math? How many people have lost their homes, gone bankrupt, or gotten into credit card debt simply because they can't do math? When you can't calcuate if you can afford a home, you are in trouble. When you are considering an 'exotic' mortgage and you don't have any idea what the highest the note can become or if you will be able to pay it, you are in trouble. When you can't figure out why your credit card balance keeps going up when you are paying more than the minimum, you are in trouble. Someone is not teaching our kids decent, basic math.

49 posted on 02/11/2010 7:30:38 AM PST by sportutegrl (VETO PROOF MAJORITY IN 2010)
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To: Trailerpark Badass

I always hated the rule “Don’t end your sentences with a preposition.”

“Well,” I thought, “What’s a preposition for?”


50 posted on 02/11/2010 7:30:55 AM PST by Skenderbej (No muhammadan practices his religion peacefully.)
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To: Huck
"failed algebra three times"

At what ages did you fail them? I had a tough time with algebra as a high school freshman. I attributed that to starting high school when I was thirteen. Thirty years later I went back to college and picked up an algebra prep guide because I was taking an intermediate algebra course. I was amazed at how easy basic algebra was. The same problems that gave me fits as a thirteen year old seemed easy as a fortyone year old. Age and maturity seem to make a big difference.

51 posted on 02/11/2010 7:31:29 AM PST by driftless2 (for long term happiness, learn how to play the accordion)
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To: sportutegrl

Our kids started doing word math problems in the second grade. I told them that they were basically already doing algebra. You are setting up equations to solve unknowns. That’s algebra in a nutshell.

A book I recommend for your kids is “Head First Algebra.” The book uses humor (albeit a bit on the corny side at times), but my kids enjoy reading it.


52 posted on 02/11/2010 7:33:15 AM PST by dfwgator
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Comment #53 Removed by Moderator

To: sportutegrl

It would be great for everyone to learn Algebra. But not everyone will learn it at the same pace or at the same time. And, frankly, not everyone will learn it, no matter how much teaching and exposure they receive.

“Algebra for All” is, I think, mainly a back door way of eliminating ability grouping in secondary schools. The evidence from this study suggests that more students will probably learn algebra, if they are grouped by ability and allowed to proceed at their own pace.


54 posted on 02/11/2010 7:33:48 AM PST by sand lake bar
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To: KarlInOhio

-2

You didn’t convert the seconds to minutes.


55 posted on 02/11/2010 7:34:42 AM PST by Skenderbej (No muhammadan practices his religion peacefully.)
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To: achilles2000
Moreover, our highly trained education professionals are to a large extent adult denizens of the left hand side of the bell curve, don’t like math, never learned math, can’t do math, and therefore can’t teach math.

The education majors in my 400-level lit courses, as well as my grad program, couldn't even "do" English.

I seem to recall that the education majors at UGA, my alma mater, had the lowest average SAT scores of any major.

56 posted on 02/11/2010 7:35:32 AM PST by Trailerpark Badass (One good thing about music, when it hits you feel no pain.)
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To: SonOfDarkSkies
They use it in their daily lives....

And that's the secret! I was terrible in math in elementary years. Due to a dumb teacher that told us not to bring rulers protractors etc. the 8Th grade final had to be curved due to her blunder. Some of us, though were asked to take a general math course before Algebra. The class was taught by the high school's machine shop teacher. Best thing that could happen to us. He taught using practical applications. I went on to Algebra scoring high in the NYS regents (1963).

57 posted on 02/11/2010 7:50:57 AM PST by Wilum (Never loaded a nuke I didn't like)
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To: driftless2

Freshman, sophmore, and junior years. But like I say, I was a MAJOR behavior problem. I might be able to do it now, but I have no need. Music is my profession now, and it contains a deep amount of math in its own right. Major 3rds, minor thirds. Intervals. Sharp 11s. 2-5-1 chord changes, not to mention 8th notes, 16th notes, 9/8 time signatures, etc.


58 posted on 02/11/2010 8:17:55 AM PST by Huck (Q: How can you tell a party is in the majority? A: They're complaining about the fillibuster.)
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To: driftless2

“2nd to 4th” is what I said. Memorize the multiplication facts in the second grade, fractions in the 4th. In homeschool, I have a second grader doing fractions, but he’s bats. He also studies Greek.


59 posted on 02/11/2010 8:28:14 AM PST by Tax-chick ("Contrary to what politicians expect us to do, let's stop and think. " ~Thomas Sowell, of course)
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To: Wilum
This is another great example of why socialism is a failure.

As a kid, I was glued to learning-oriented TV, books, the dictionary, my chemistry set, and encyclopedias...but I hated school (it was tedious and boring).

It wasn't the teachers' faults so much as it was the fault of the system.

The absence of competition in government-managed systems eliminates the creative destruction inherent in free enterprise systems (which is required for optimum performance).

In business, competition provides an overwhelming influence...constant competitive pressure on each to perform at its utmost. Excel, or go broke!

As an aside, businesses in the free market also suffer some of the problems of government-managed systems when they become large enough to become bureaucratic.

Unfortunately, as businesses grow larger, the application of this competitive pressure is breaks down (the pressure becomes diffused). That is why the auto industry had such problems. The size of companies permitted their the managements to become insular and self protective.

I think this is one of the reasons small companies provide most of the employment in a free market economy.

60 posted on 02/11/2010 8:36:40 AM PST by SonOfDarkSkies (Luke 12:34 -- For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.)
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