FReeper Book Club: The Debate over the Constitution, Federal Farmer #1

A Publius/Billhedrill Essay | 8 February 2010 | Publius/Billthedrill

[Publius]

FReeper Book Club
The Debate over the Constitution
An Anonymous Author and His Measured Critique
Federal Farmer #1

Ping! The thread has been posted.

Earlier threads:

FReeper Book Club: The Debate over the Constitution
5 Oct 1787, Centinel #1
6 Oct 1787, James Wilson’s Speech at the State House

[Publius]

FReeper Book Club
The Debate over the Constitution
An Anonymous Author and His Measured Critique
Federal Farmer #1

Ping! The thread has been posted.

Earlier threads:

FReeper Book Club: The Debate over the Constitution
5 Oct 1787, Centinel #1
6 Oct 1787, James Wilson’s Speech at the State House

[Political Junkie Too]

38 It is natural for men who wish to hasten the adoption of a measure to tell us, now is the crisis — now is the critical moment which must be seized, or all will be lost, and to shut the door against free enquiry whenever conscious the thing presented has defects in it, which time and investigation will probably discover.

Is Federal Farmer talking about ObamaCare?

-PJ

[Publius]

Not really, but he could also be talking about the Patriot Act or TARP. His concern is that the supporters of the Constitution are trying to rush the document through without proper consideration.

Whis is old has become new again.

[SnakeDoctor]

The first rule of Book Club is, you do not talk about Book Club ...

... if someone yells ‘stop!”, goes limp or taps out — the book is over.
... no shirts, no shoes.
... one book at a time fellas.
... books will go on as long as they have to.
... if its your first time at Book Club, you have to read.

SnakeDoc

[Political Junkie Too]

I hope they at least nailed the Constitution to the tree for more than 72 hours before voting on it. ;-)

-PJ

[Publius]

The nice thing is that they had to have at least 9 of the 13 states ratify via convention, not via state legislature. The document had been published, and then it became necessary to elect delegates to ratifying conventions and have them debate ratifying it.

So it had been nailed to the tree for quite a while, but that did not stop the proponents of the Constitution from demanding quick action. You'll see that in two weeks when Federalist #1 comes up for the book club.

[rlmorel]

Wow. This is a LOT to digest in one sitting, but after a single reading through the entire thing, there is one factor that stands out:

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

The issues that our forefathers grappled with are not very different from those we struggle with today, except that we have 200+ years of government by republic to examine and learn from. This I knew from reading the Federalist papers.

We live in instant communication where images and data from cameras, news agencies and cell phones flow into our brains from the other side of the world almost instantaneously, but...we still have many of the same questions we struggle with, and we can even frame them the same way.

To me, it highlights the conceit we have, and highlights my contempt for those who view the current Constitution as an outdated, archaic document.

[rlmorel]

LOL...I began writing my post when there was only two responses in the thread...and that was the same thing that stuck out at me.

Those who want to push something through as quickly as possible.

To me, one of the most amazing things about the Constitution (and my admiration for those who framed it) is that they took care to include the mechanisms of change within the documents itself, and were astute enough to make the document difficult to change, so that it would be resistant to the effects of populist winds and flames.

[Bigun]

8 Though I have long apprehended that fraudulent debtors and embarrassed men on the one hand, and men on the other unfriendly to republican equality would produce an uneasiness among the people and prepare the way not for cool and deliberate reforms in the governments, but for changes calculated to promote the interests of particular orders of men.

Amen and Amen!

[Bigun]

34 It is too often the case in political concerns that men state facts not as they are, but as they wish them to be, and almost every man, by calling to mind past scenes, will find this to be true.

Yet another keen observation!

[rockrr]

Bump (because there is so much here to digest!)

[Bigun]

61 A general convention for mere commercial purposes was moved for — the authors of this measure saw that the people's attention was turned solely to the amendment of the federal system, and that, had the idea of a total change been started, probably no state would have appointed members to the convention.

A key point largely forgotten today.

[Publius]

Yes, there is a lot to digest.

But that's the nice thing about these threads. You can come back again and again and absorb the words and their meaning. It's not something that has to be done in a hour or even a day.

[TASMANIANRED]

37-50

In these lines lies the whole heath care debate.

Created crisis,fanned fires of urgency, deals made in haste and free from public scrutiny.

The anonymous writer was gifted with foresight.

[TASMANIANRED]

38 It is natural for men who wish to hasten the adoption of a measure to tell us, now is the crisis — now is the critical moment which must be seized, or all will be lost, and to shut the door against free enquiry whenever conscious the thing presented has defects in it, which time and investigation will probably discover.

Never let a crisis go to waste, even if it is an invented crisis.

Obama care, Cap and Trade....

[Billthedrill]

The issues that our forefathers grappled with are not very different from those we struggle with today...

That's been giving me chills since Publius talked me into this project. These are truly fundamental political concerns. Nor have the passions of men (nor their vices) changed a great deal since the quill pen gave way to the word processor.

Look at some of the dynamics in this one (and its successor) - class tensions, urban/rural tensions, the desire or reluctance to set up centers of power, funding issues, how to ensure that the government is not one thing to one set of citizens and another to others while simultaneously respecting the differences between regions. I don't think the men who wrote these pieces would be in the least disappointed that we're still debating them. I think they'd be astonished that we still can and delighted that we still do.

[Publius]

37-50
In these lines lies the whole heath care debate.

And the TARP debate and the Patriot Act debate.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

[rlmorel]

"...I don't think the men who wrote these pieces would be in the least disappointed that we're still debating them. I think they'd be astonished that we still can and delighted that we still do..."

Well put! That is a great and uplifting sentiment!