Awarding Ukrainian national hero angers Poles

thenews.pl ^ | 06.02.2010

[lizol]

Awarding Ukrainian national hero angers Poles

06.02.2010 11:30

The Chairman of the Union of Ukrainians in Poland Piotr Tyma said he understands the negative reaction of President Lech Kaczynski to the decision of honouring Stepan Bandera by President Viktor Yushchenko.

The Ukrainian head of state awarded Bandera with the Hero of Ukraine title and declared the soldiers of the Ukrainian Nationalist Partisan Army UPA as fighters for independence. Piotr Tyma underlined that Polish Ukrainian relations have been neglected for long while WWII brought tragedy to civilians in Poland and Ukraine.

“This dialogue on the past had its very good moments but in scertain areas was incomplete. Both sides seemed to forget that the victims were not only on part of Poland, but as has been proven by historians, the conflict had tragic ending for both sides.”

The official statement of the Presidential Chancellery condemns the decision to glorify Bandera and his soldiers. "An estimate of activities of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN) and the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA) is categorically negative in Poland," Kaczynski said in the statement.

The OUN and the UPA 'carried out large-scale massacres' of Polish people in eastern territories of Poland. Awarding Stepan Bandera with the title of Hero of Ukraine is a blow to the process of dialogue and reconciliation, underlined the Polish head of state.

Several dozen people protested at the Ukrainian Embassy in Warsaw against the glorification of Bandera and UPA .During WWII over 50 thousand Polish civilians were killed by UPA soldiers in the region of Volyn, now Ukraine. Similar protests were carried out in Krakow, Lublin and Poznan. The protesters underlined that it was not an anti Ukrainian demonstration or an attempt to interfere into internal matters of Ukraine, but the need to remember the victims of UPA.

[raybbr]

I have a feeling Poland is in for some tough times. Poland doesn’t seem to want to play the same game as the rest of Europe and Russia and I get the feeling that Poland will get squeezed big time.

[romanesq]

Never heard of 50,000 Poles being killed by the Ukrainian Insurgent Army. But I do remember hearing about a lot of discrimination and oppression by Poles leading into WWII.

And a Canadien uncle traveled in Europe visiting eastern Poland. He showed pictures of a Ukrainian Church. When I asked why was it locked, he said because Polish people would attack it. Why? He said they considered Ukrainians the same as Russians.

Even a Catholic church isn’t safe today.

[lizol]

Never heard of 50,000 Poles being killed by the Ukrainian Insurgent Army. But I do remember hearing about a lot of discrimination and oppression by Poles leading into WWII

Then you should try to study history of this part of Europe in a bit less biased way.

[lizol]

Just for a start:

Massacres of Poles in Volhynia

[lizol]

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[Spike Knotts]

“Never heard of 50,000 Poles being killed by the Ukrainian Insurgent Army. But I do remember hearing about a lot of discrimination and oppression by Poles leading into WWII.

And a Canadien uncle traveled in Europe visiting eastern Poland. He showed pictures of a Ukrainian Church. When I asked why was it locked, he said because Polish people would attack it. Why? He said they considered Ukrainians the same as Russians.

Even a Catholic church isn’t safe today.”

You should write a history book comprised entirely of “what you’ve heard about.” I’m sure it would be a fascinating look at the History Channel’s past and present programming.

The Poles have every reason they need to hate the Russians. For some reason, they don’t show Soviet/Russian brutality on the Hitler Channel very often. You should crack a book. You wouldn’t be able to “hear it,” but you could read it out loud.

Are you really trying to say that Catholic Churches aren’t safe in Poland...a country that is 89 percent Catholic? I’ll just laugh to myself for a while.

[toshut]

lizol,

Unfortunately, history is never cut and dry. The Polish President said it best:

“The tragedy of (Volyn) would not have happened “without the permission and inspiration of third parties – two murderous totalitarian states,” that led to a situation in which two nations oppressed by them “became hostile towards each other,” continued Lech KaczyÅ„ski. He also highlighted the fact that the tragic events of war have “broken the thread of trust and solidarity between the people of Poland and of Ukraine” for decades. However, he predicted that the truth of these events will, in the words of the Gospel, “set us free” and allow us to build a better future for Poland, Ukraine and all of Europe.”
http://www.president.pl

The truth is that Ukrainian lands have been occupied by Poles, Russians, Germans, etc and during those occupations, Ukrainians were abused, killed and terrorized. Unfortunately Ukrainians have been the losers in those periods, and history is written by the victors.

The propaganda of both the Polish and Soviet Communist Parties(and now Russian SBU) created animosity against Ukrainians in general by demonizing Ukrainian freedom fighters (OUN and UPA) .

One needs to step back and acknowledge that both sides did things that were cruel during the war. You also need to differentiate between the acts of formal organized fighters , ie, Armia Krajowa and UPA, and village self defense bands, not to mention bandits, Russian partisans, NKVD provocateurs, German and Red Army troops. Who REALLY knows who was the responsible party in each incident???

During WW2 Poles killed Ukrainians and destroyed their villages, just as Ukrainians killed Poles. To deny that both sides were involved in killing is wrong. Unfortunately this is something that the Gremans and the Russians wanted and helped promote.

Was Yuschenko’s award for Stepan Bandera a good thing or the correct thing?? Probably not. Some even suggest that Moscow gave their permission to do this, specifically because they knew that they could use it to stir up anti-Ukrainian feelings during the Ukrainian elections and beyond. The Polish government has been a strong vocal supporter of Ukraine, and depending on what happens in the elections today, may step back and let Putin win the prize that evaded him 6 years ago.

[lizol]

I’ve never said, that history is “cut and dry”.

Fact is, that Ukrainian nationalists murdered several dozens of thousands of the Polish people - only becasue they were Polish.

Which is something, that romanesq admitted he/she had “never heard of”.

The fact, that the Polish underground Home Army and local self-defence groups reacted to those acts, and also murdered many Ukrainians in retaliation is another story.

Which I HAVE HEARD OF and consider those events as evil.

[Kabud]

This one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_of_Poles_in_Volhynia
is very manipulated, has a lot of disinformation

this one is rather more grounded
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historiography_of_the_Volyn_tragedy

There were at least a dozen different partisan and regular armies operating in 1943-1946 in Volhynia

There were victims of all ethnicities there.

BUt there was only one real devious force there: KGB who was creating from their operatives a false flag groups of different affiliation in order to stir up ethnic conflicts there.

Ukrainian Insurgents had nothing to do with ethnic cleansing : their goal was to liberate from bolshevism and not let nazi take over their land

Pols had absolutely no play in it : in 1944 Bandera made a formal military union with Army Kraiova.

The best `proof` KGB has to their case is forged record from the 1940s of supposedly some one claiming that he heardf that some one else discussed orally the ethnic plan against Polish people in VOlhynia

It is so idioticaly simple but people still fall for it like dead flies!!

[romanesq]

Which books would you recommend showing the murder of Ukrainians under Polish rule?

A Catholic Church in Eastern Poland being vandalized at any opportunity is not a claim every church in Poland in under such circumstances. That was from a first hand conversation.

Sorry if this doesn’t fit in your official history “book.”

[lizol]

Ukrainian Insurgents had nothing to do with ethnic cleansing : their goal was to liberate from bolshevism and not let nazi take over their land

That's not necessarily true, I'm afraid.

About Bandera's (and his men) towards other ethnicities:

“In May 1941 at a meeting in Krakow the leadership of Bandera’s OUN faction adopted the program “Struggle and action for OUN during the war” which outlined the plans for activities at the onset of the Nazi invasion of the Soviet Union and the western territories of the Ukrainian SSR. Section G of that document –“Orders for first days of the state living organization” Ukrainian: outline activity of the Bandera followers during summer 1941. In subsection of “Policy Minority” ordered: “Moskali, Poles, Jews are hostile for us ” and thus them must be “… exterminated in fight, especially those who which would resist the regime: deport them to their own lands, importantly: destroy their intelligentsia that may not be allowed into positions of power” … “so-called Polish peasants must be assimilated”… Jews must be isolated, removed from governmental positions, those who are deemed necessary may only work with an overseer... Jews’ assimilation is not possible.” Later in June Yaroslav Stetsko send to Bandera report in which he indicate - “We have built a militia which helps to get rid of the Jews and protect the population.” Leaflets spread in the name of Bandera in the same year called for the “destruction” of ““Moscow”, Poles , Hungarians and Jewery.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera#Views_towards_other_ethnicities

[romanesq]

Wiki not the best place for historical information. You won’t be reading about the NKVD and its work in Ukraine and the details surrounding that leading up to the Terror Famine.

Wiki ain’t Robert Conquest.

[lizol]

“the NKVD and its work in Ukraine and the details surrounding that leading up to the Terror Famine” are one thing.

And the OUN’s and UIA’s murders of the Poles are different.