Posted on 02/05/2010 6:04:24 PM PST by JimWayne
Edited on 02/05/2010 6:58:24 PM PST by Admin Moderator. [history]
Toyota deserves to get burned for using a crappy union shop to make its parts. Didn’t they learn anything from GM, Ford or Chrysler?
Sabotage?
I could be wrong, but the corrective parts seem to be shims to move the pedal higher above any carpet. If so..the problem was not with the pedal mechanism, but how it was mounted by the OEM. That happens a lot. The manufacturer of the part doesn’t control how the OEM does the installation, but can get blamed for problems.
Don’t trash this US manufacturer just because he has a union shop.
Attack the supplier, that’s the ticket. Union, non union or whatever, it’s BS. Suppliers make the parts to Toyotas exacting standards. Toyota had a lousy design and it is biting them in their arrogant ass.
I believe in the end they will find out it is the software that is the issue.
Very true. If Toyota accepted the finished product then Toyota bears the fault. The government needs to back-off and let Toyota solve the problem. (Whatever it is).
“Maybe, my next car should be a Honda”
Maybe. A coworker just found out from the dealer that his Honda Oddesy had been recalled for a bad torque converter. No notice from Honda, it didn’t make the headlines or the nightly news.If they hadn’t noticed a problem, would Honda have even sent a recall notice? All car companies are in a bind right now, how they handle recalls is telling on how they back their product
Sabotage?
Inept engineers, lousy in house QA on Toyotas part. You don’t sabotage over 4 million cars
“Union shop = CRAPPY WORK. Greedy, lazy over-paid union slugs have destroyed American industry”
I’m as anti union as a person can be, but you don’t know what you’re talking about. I work for an automotive supplier (non union) and have to deal daily with the standards that the end customer demands. None of them accept anything not meeting their standards. The mantra from all of them is zero defects.For Toyota to lay this off on a supplier is bunk. It was their desing and the parts were made to spec
Yep. Perhaps the gas pedal is problematic, but I think the software has some issues as well.
Steve Wozniak was interviewed by ABC on Thursday and he explained what happened to him. He was convinced it's a software problem in the car's computer. I may not agree with Wazniak's politics, but it's hard to bet against a computer pioneer when he says it's a software problem.
I’d agree with him. Based on my professional experience I’d stake my reputation on that. It is the fuel management system software.
They might find a mechanical solution to the problem, but the problem is the software.
who else do they make these gas pedals for - only Toyota??
Maybe not a Honda either, obama does not own it.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2445517/posts?page=4
I’m not promoting any brand of vehicle. They all have problems from time to time and have recalls. Don’t know what I’d buy if I was in the market right now. Would have to do some research first
As I read elsewhere, those are different issues.
The floor mat problem is being solved by proper installation of mats, and Toyota will rework the pedals in the future to work even with mats incorrectly installed.
The sticking pedal issue is caused by the washer that is intended to create a "natural" sense of a pedal (because people are used to pressing pedals that pull a pretty long cable.) This washer, in CTS pedal, is made out of plastic that tends to expand in humid conditions, and then the "slightly sticking" pedal (as it should be) becomes a "completely stuck" pedal. The same washer in Denso's pedal is apparently made out of a different material that doesn't absorb water.
There may be a software problem too. But the bad pedals, when removed from cars, indeed stick half-way. So they need to be fixed regardless of software defects. The software also needs to be looked into; unfortunately it's closed source, and even if it were open source it's hard to simulate everything that is happening there. For example, the Hall effect sensors are analog parts, but the microcontroller is a digital part. Also it is important to know how the pedal's absolute position is encoded; there are plenty of ways to make a design mistake here.
As one BAD example, the sensor sends pulses as you press and release the pedal, and when you completely release the pedal another sensor reports that. So you'd think you have a reliable interface, right? No. First of all, if you are on a highway for hours, the pedal will move up and down a bit, but it won't be released completely; this may lead to desynchronization if some pulses are missed. Secondly, if there is a bad contact in the "down" sensor the pedal may report that you pressed the pedal when you haven't done such a thing. There are ways to combat that too, but they work only if you use them.
There are tons of other things that may go wrong. Check out the priority inversion for example. Paraphrased, your neighbor shouts "Sir, your house is on fire, get out!!!" and you reply "Nah, can't do that, I need to finish watering plants, since I started that already, and I never interrupt a task once I begin it." This happened to one of Martian probes, and I'm pretty sure the firmware for it was written by guys smarter than Toyota engineers, and checked for errors 10 times as hard as any car - and it still failed.
Also vote for software. I work with engineers with manufacturing design experience (not cars, though), and I have software QA experience. Our lunchtime consensus was software problems, as well. One engineer has a recalled Toyota, and was even up eyeballing the pedal with a flashlight when the first “carpet fix” came out (if you know engineers, that’s what they do.)
I will agree with you that there are some problems with some unions out there.
Seeing as I am in a union and bust my ass on a daily basis to provide a quality product for my company's customers please don't speak about me or claim to know what my wage should be.
I love my country and am very conservative but I could not afford to live in the Washington, D.C. Metro area working as a construction worker if it weren't for my union.
I strive daily to make sure it is one of the best in the country despite your misguided ridicule and insults.
I tell you what. Come and visit me and do what I do for 8, 10, 12 and sometimes 24 hours a day/night, on weekends and holidays, in the heat (Sometimes exceeding 160 degrees hot and however cold it may be in the winter. This one's been a doosy. How about on a deck job or a retrofit building where you can't use an elevator because there isn't one working and the building is 8 stories or better tall, or maybe work in an occupied space where you are treated like dirt by those you are seeking to help condition their space and then tell me what I should make an hour.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.