Posted on 01/17/2010 2:54:36 PM PST by Colofornian
Six links looks worse than it is, since 3 of them all refer to the same case.
Another one is allegedly [”Jeff also claims to be married to Erin Mowen - and has 5 children by her. The State of Utah also says he is merried to Elixzabeth Ward.” http://www.whoisjeffmowen.com/] a bigamist...hardly a “good” mainstream LDS member. Oh, and he was already jailed and standing trial on the other charges, operating the intimidation attempt from jail.
As for your stats, if Mormons are 2% of the population, then how does that stack up agains this?
In all, more than 150 Ponzi schemes collapsed in 2009, compared to about 40 in 2008, according to the AP’s examination of criminal cases at all U.S. attorneys’ offices and the FBI, as well as criminal and civil actions taken by state prosecutors and regulators at both the federal and state levels. http://www.journalnet.com/news/national/article_36fcf528-ef05-5163-a379-29fe3a8defac.html
As for the LDS leadership warning members, maybe other groups should follow suit, rather than trying to make it out to be a bad thing?
My first impression of the article was that it was, as you said, a hit piece on the Mormons. But the article didn’t make the connsection that the guy was a con man because he was a Mormon. It seemed to me that it suggested that Barton was a Mormon because he was a con man, and he abused the church’s vetting process.
As I said, this article revolves around TX victims...one of the links, Aurora, CO; the earliest link, Sacramento area; Mowen was from Lindon, UT; Merriman, from Taylorsville, UT. That's five regions right there that the perps were hitting up -- and I wasn't pretending to be comprehensive (as if I know of all the Lds fraud going on out there).
Let me give you info about a story that was splashed across the nation--hitting even the Bloomberg News, which the Salt Lake Trib republished (Sept. 18, 2009)
See Mormon victims are caught up in $50M scam to sell gold bullion...
I mention this case both because one of the perps in this case was actually a Christian pastor from Perris, CA, and because of some of the interesting observations by Utah insiders:
From the Salt Lake Trib, Sept. 18, 2009, republishing the Bloomberg News piece: Ned Hill, a professor of business management and a former dean of the Marriott School of Management at Brigham Young University in Provo, notes that Mormons have a history of being victimized by financial scams. The church teaches its 13.5 million members they can get into heaven by following a prescribed path of good works. "What you have in a Mormon community or any religious community is a community of trust, and it can be very strong," said Hill, who is a Mormon. "If you can break into that trust, then the things that make this so supportive can make people really vulnerable. Mormons can be especially vulnerable because they're committed to doing good." Jones, Jennings and Simburg, none of whom is a Mormon, exploited this vulnerability for at least four years, offering a cocktail of spirituality, exclusivity and the promise of high returns. "The guys who did this were geniuses in a way," said Dana Carney, an assistant professor of management at the Columbia University Graduate School of Business in New York, who has written about investor psychology. "This has the flavor of a cult. They hit all these vulnerabilities. There was religion; we trust like people, especially religiously like people. With the nightly calls, there was an illusion of transparency. They took advantage of the sunk-costs phenomenon: The more people invest in something, the more connected they feel." Taylorsville resident, Danniel J. Merriman was named in a Securities and Exchange Commission complaint as an investor who also solicited investments from others and forwarded the money to the scammers. Merriman also apparently used the last name Meniman. The SEC called Merriman one of the "significant promoters who brought man victims into the fraud.
As for your stats, if Mormons are 2% of the population, then how does that stack up agains this? In all, more than 150 Ponzi schemes collapsed in 2009... [ApplegateRanch]
Wow!!!! You are hilarious!!! So who are you -- the FFA? (Financial Fraud Apologist?)
Of course, for your outright vast statistical distortion attempt, we would first need to buy into your horrendous assumption here that of these 150 Ponzi schemes that collapsed in 2009, all 150 were either generated by religious folks or at least vastly exploited them.
Tell you what: Why don't you do the research on these 150 Ponzi schemes, and then tell me what # were either generated by key religious people of influence -- or vastly exploited them -- and then we'll have what the overall pool # is to give you a nice % answer.
Why do you say that? Lds current teachings from the top on down --while yes, threaten ex-communication for bigamy/polygamy -- actually supposedly simultaneously "practices" what is tantamount to the opposite approach!!!
What do I mean? Well, Lds-wise, if you marry serially to multiple spouses in your lifetime, AND are married to EACH in the temple & sealed to them for eternity, then you become, upon death (Lds say), an eternal bigamist/polygamist!!! So the issue to them is in reality simply a mere turf distinction -- of WHERE it's "OK" to be practiced: Earth, no -- at least not until the Mormon jesus returns (so says Lds apostle Bruce R. McConkie in his book, Mormon Doctrine, who referenced polygamy in his book as a "holy practice");...
...whereasother colonies beyond death? Yes, of course! Both as mentioned above as well as all the 20th and 19th century Lds polygamists!!! (They say "families are forever!") I mean, you can't get any more "mainstream" than Joseph Smith or Brigham Young!!!
If a person is gullible about MORMONism - they just might be gullible about other things.
We cannot afford statues in downtown SLC.
“I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.”
17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.
19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”
20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.” I then said to my mother,
Well, he just came back with his answer. Threw in Bernie Madoff for good measure.
I think we’ve got your drift Colofornian.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.