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To: Colofornian

Six links looks worse than it is, since 3 of them all refer to the same case.

Another one is allegedly [”Jeff also claims to be married to Erin Mowen - and has 5 children by her. The State of Utah also says he is merried to Elixzabeth Ward.” http://www.whoisjeffmowen.com/] a bigamist...hardly a “good” mainstream LDS member. Oh, and he was already jailed and standing trial on the other charges, operating the intimidation attempt from jail.

As for your stats, if Mormons are 2% of the population, then how does that stack up agains this?

In all, more than 150 Ponzi schemes collapsed in 2009, compared to about 40 in 2008, according to the AP’s examination of criminal cases at all U.S. attorneys’ offices and the FBI, as well as criminal and civil actions taken by state prosecutors and regulators at both the federal and state levels. http://www.journalnet.com/news/national/article_36fcf528-ef05-5163-a379-29fe3a8defac.html

As for the LDS leadership warning members, maybe other groups should follow suit, rather than trying to make it out to be a bad thing?


21 posted on 01/17/2010 5:19:01 PM PST by ApplegateRanch (I think not, therefore I don't exist!)
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To: ApplegateRanch
Six links looks worse than it is, since 3 of them all refer to the same case.

As I said, this article revolves around TX victims...one of the links, Aurora, CO; the earliest link, Sacramento area; Mowen was from Lindon, UT; Merriman, from Taylorsville, UT. That's five regions right there that the perps were hitting up -- and I wasn't pretending to be comprehensive (as if I know of all the Lds fraud going on out there).

Let me give you info about a story that was splashed across the nation--hitting even the Bloomberg News, which the Salt Lake Trib republished (Sept. 18, 2009)

See Mormon victims are caught up in $50M scam to sell gold bullion...

I mention this case both because one of the perps in this case was actually a Christian pastor from Perris, CA, and because of some of the interesting observations by Utah insiders:

From the Salt Lake Trib, Sept. 18, 2009, republishing the Bloomberg News piece: Ned Hill, a professor of business management and a former dean of the Marriott School of Management at Brigham Young University in Provo, notes that Mormons have a history of being victimized by financial scams. The church teaches its 13.5 million members they can get into heaven by following a prescribed path of good works. "What you have in a Mormon community or any religious community is a community of trust, and it can be very strong," said Hill, who is a Mormon. "If you can break into that trust, then the things that make this so supportive can make people really vulnerable. Mormons can be especially vulnerable because they're committed to doing good." Jones, Jennings and Simburg, none of whom is a Mormon, exploited this vulnerability for at least four years, offering a cocktail of spirituality, exclusivity and the promise of high returns. "The guys who did this were geniuses in a way," said Dana Carney, an assistant professor of management at the Columbia University Graduate School of Business in New York, who has written about investor psychology. "This has the flavor of a cult. They hit all these vulnerabilities. There was religion; we trust like people, especially religiously like people. With the nightly calls, there was an illusion of transparency. They took advantage of the sunk-costs phenomenon: The more people invest in something, the more connected they feel." Taylorsville resident, Danniel J. Merriman was named in a Securities and Exchange Commission complaint as an investor who also solicited investments from others and forwarded the money to the scammers. Merriman also apparently used the last name Meniman. The SEC called Merriman one of the "significant promoters who brought man victims into the fraud.

As for your stats, if Mormons are 2% of the population, then how does that stack up agains this? In all, more than 150 Ponzi schemes collapsed in 2009... [ApplegateRanch]

Wow!!!! You are hilarious!!! So who are you -- the FFA? (Financial Fraud Apologist?)

Of course, for your outright vast statistical distortion attempt, we would first need to buy into your horrendous assumption here that of these 150 Ponzi schemes that collapsed in 2009, all 150 were either generated by religious folks or at least vastly exploited them.

Tell you what: Why don't you do the research on these 150 Ponzi schemes, and then tell me what # were either generated by key religious people of influence -- or vastly exploited them -- and then we'll have what the overall pool # is to give you a nice % answer.

23 posted on 01/17/2010 5:51:42 PM PST by Colofornian (If you're not going to drink the coffee, at least wake up and smell it!)
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To: ApplegateRanch
Mowen...a bigamist...hardly a “good” mainstream LDS member.

Why do you say that? Lds current teachings from the top on down --while yes, threaten ex-communication for bigamy/polygamy -- actually supposedly simultaneously "practices" what is tantamount to the opposite approach!!!

What do I mean? Well, Lds-wise, if you marry serially to multiple spouses in your lifetime, AND are married to EACH in the temple & sealed to them for eternity, then you become, upon death (Lds say), an eternal bigamist/polygamist!!! So the issue to them is in reality simply a mere turf distinction -- of WHERE it's "OK" to be practiced: Earth, no -- at least not until the Mormon jesus returns (so says Lds apostle Bruce R. McConkie in his book, Mormon Doctrine, who referenced polygamy in his book as a "holy practice");...

...whereasother colonies beyond death? Yes, of course! Both as mentioned above as well as all the 20th and 19th century Lds polygamists!!! (They say "families are forever!") I mean, you can't get any more "mainstream" than Joseph Smith or Brigham Young!!!

24 posted on 01/17/2010 5:57:04 PM PST by Colofornian (If you're not going to drink the coffee, at least wake up and smell it!)
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