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To: Karliner
No problem.

I think part of the difficulty is that we know, now. We know that Hitler would be defeated (although it was a near-run thing) -- that Europe would not be under the heel of the Nazis forever -- that the Pope didn't get arrested and hauled off to Germany.

Pius XII was in a difficult, uncertain, and terrifying situation: how to help protect the Jews of Rome and of Italy from persecution, arrest, and death, while balancing that against the risk to his flock, his priests and religious and even himself from the power of the Nazis. Secondarily what he could do to protest against persecution of Jews in other places, balanced against the risk that the Nazis would respond to his protests by stepping up their efforts. This actually happened in the Netherlands -- the Dutch bishops spoke out against the persecution of the Jews, and the Nazis responded by rounding up all Catholics of Jewish origin (including Edith Stein, Saint Teresia Benedicta of the Cross).

The pastoral letter protesting the deportation of Jews was published on Sunday, July 26, 1942. The next day, Arthur Seyss-Inquart, the commandant of the Nazi occupation, ordered that all Catholics of Jewish origin in the Netherlands be deported immediately. The written warrant for the arrest of all such individuals was dated July 30 and gave as the reason: "because the bishops interfered." The saint and her sister were seized from their convent 5 days later, and were murdered in Auschwitz two weeks to the day after the bishops' pastoral letter.

That kind of result will cause you to rethink speaking out.

62 posted on 01/13/2010 9:51:44 AM PST by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: AnAmericanMother
The next day, Arthur Seyss-Inquart, the commandant of the Nazi occupation, ordered that all Catholics of Jewish origin in the Netherlands be deported immediately.

Ha I DO remember this, not the names however. My own family Hx as you can read is full of surprises. Just FYI I was confirmed and went to Old Mission San Juan Capistrano. Today in America I think to speak out may involve some nasty abuse as we're seeing but minor comparatively to the ovens, chambers and ditches of that time. We need to band together regardless of doctrinal differences( we ALL love Jesus do we not?)to beat back this socialist/communist push that will only creat more of a tyranny and where there's outright tyranny blood flows.

On a funny note, I remember being at church in the Old Mission, and the latin mass was droning on, then the incense burners come down the aisle. I whispered to my grandma and told her I needed to leave( asthma). I also misinterpreted her words as I THOUGHT she'd told me the priests were burning insects. It was years I finally learned people used to laugh at my misinterpretation of incense. To this day I tell people they burn insects in their incense. Eh, well, live and learn.

On a latter note, I was born after 1945 but it still amazes me the madness and fear that my very near relatives suffered or died. Some Jewish family were killed at Belgen-Bersen, one at Buchenwald. Others are just gone. I suppose I'd have to spend thousands on genealogy records and go back to Germany( I don't speak German well) and the Hassidic portion of Belarus and Ukraine but some of those pogroms were well before Hitlers time.

I think what gets me is though the last pope did apologize to the Jewish folks there's still a portion of Catholics that tend to believe allah and G!D are one and the same. I only wish there was some way to bring all people together and to define fully who allah is and who the God of the Bible is but that's not even a Catholic/Jewish problem as so many breakaway protestnt Christian churches believe in the "replacement theology" which is very disturbing indeed, but that's another subject altogether. Thanks again.

69 posted on 01/13/2010 12:32:27 PM PST by Karliner (Things are more like they are now than they have ever been before. DDE)
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