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To: presidio9

Presidio, the fact that Hitler was baptized a Catholic means he died a Catholic. Unless he converted to another religion, mere un-participation in his faith made him no less a Catholic than any other cradle Catholic. (I am not using this to sway the discussion about whether he should have been excommunicated or not).

It irks me to no end that whenever we have this discussion, those of us who think Pius could have done more are called not conservative Catholics. Just as with the Presidency, I respect the office, but not always the man who sits there. Not all our Popes have been saintly.

I did a lot of research on this topic a number of years ago (pre-internet, fact checked, non-fiction reference books), and decided, based upon MY research, that Pius could have done more. That is not to say that he shouldn’t be made a saint, we all know that is an earthly distinction which the Big Guy has the final say on.

I must say it is highly insulting to be told I’m not Catholic enough if I disagree-which I am not attributing specifically to you. It is so insulting, I’m thinking of breaking out my tr-cornered metal ruler and going after some hands! How’s that for Catholic for you? (again, not you specifically.) I am not at all insecure about my Catholic convictions, I am quite comfortable with them. So comfortable, in fact, that I can handle criticism of the Church without resorting to name calling and faith questioning.


25 posted on 01/12/2010 6:27:37 PM PST by blu (Graffiti the world, I've seen the writing on the wall...)
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To: blu
Presidio, the fact that Hitler was baptized a Catholic means he died a Catholic. Unless he converted to another religion, mere un-participation in his faith made him no less a Catholic than any other cradle Catholic. (I am not using this to sway the discussion about whether he should have been excommunicated or not).

I'm guessing that this is why other people on this thread are calling you out when you present yourself as a Catholic. You are confused about a few things. Catholicism is not a race or ethnicity. Anyone can stop being a Catholic at any time.

In order to be a member of the Catholic Church, you must be baptized. Hitler was. You must be Confirmed. There are conflicting accounts here, but let's say he was. He began adulthood as a Catholic. However, Catholics are required to attend Mass at least weekly and on Holy Days. At that Mass, they will confess their sins, profess their faith, and receive the Sacrament of Communion. Hitler obviously did not do this, and chose not to do this. He therefore ceased to be in Communion with the Catholic faith. That is the same thing as excommunication. Yes, an individual can do that on his own. Catholics are also obligated to receive the Sacrament of Reconciliation regularly, which he also did not do. Finally, the Church stresses a Catholic's obligation to respect the sanctity life. We know how he did with that one. It is a convention of the liberal media that a person who is baptized is Catholic for life. It is convenient to use this construction when describing "Catholic" politicians who fight for more abortions, even though the Church has made it very clear that you can't be Catholic and pro-choice. "Membership" into the Catholic faith represents a communion with the Church, which can't exist unless that faith is being practiced on a daily basis. Hitler wasn't the slightest bit Catholic. Period. He wasn't even pretending to be, because he had rejected that faith at an early age. Don't argue this one further. You are 100% wrong.

28 posted on 01/12/2010 6:54:21 PM PST by presidio9 (Islam is as Islam does)
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