Posted on 01/01/2010 4:46:43 PM PST by rawhide
A 4-year-old boy attending a New Year's Eve church service with his family was killed when a stray bullet came through the roof, hitting him in the head.
The boy, Marquel Peters, was sitting beside his mother in the sanctuary during an intermission, said Lloyd Phipps, senior pastor at the Church of God of Prophecy near Decatur.
About 350 people were gathered in the DeKalb County church on Covington Drive, waiting for a concert to begin at 12:30 a.m. Friday, Phipps said.
"We heard a loud pop, which we now assume was when the bullet came through the roof," Phipps said.
The child, who had been playing a video game moments before the incident, fell to the floor.
"He appeared to be unconscious at first, and then he started crying," Phipps said.
Phipps said the church members prayed for the child, and continued with the planned concert, believing the child would survive his injury.
The child was rushed to a hospital, where he later died, according to Officer Jason Gagnon with DeKalb police.
The pastor and the parishioners where still in the church when they learned of the child's death about 3:30 a.m., Phipps said. He said during the concert, the boy's family kept him updated on the child's condition, which he believed was improving.
Investigators returned to the church later Friday, where they discovered the point of entry for the bullet: in the roof of the church. Phipps said police believe someone fired a celebratory shot into the air, and it went through the roof on its way down.
"It's one of those things that you just cannot make any sense out of," Phipps said. "This lady took her kid to church, which is the right thing to do. And her son got killed because of someone’s irresponsible behavior."
(Excerpt) Read more at ajc.com ...
That is my point entirely. This bullet supposedly came through the ROOF. Not a window or a wall. It was falling from the sky, if I am to believe this report.
Terrific. You're clearly smarter than they are, and more worldly than me - whom you characterize as a rube for believing two San Francisco homosexuals - who make a tidy income busting myths.
I'm interested in reading you mathematical calculations where your superior intellect and experience prove beyond doubt that a projectile weighing appx. 140 grains, traveling at it's terminal velocity for free-fall, can still manage to retain the appropriate level of force to penetrate a roof - to include the shingle, sheathing, plywood, insulation and drywall - and then deliver a fatal blow to a human skull.
Don't forget to include the part where your magic bullet, falling from it's apex, and losing all but minimum forward velocity, also manages to maintain the appropriate spin-rate to guarantee aerodynamic stability.
I look forward to your answer, professor.
As an Atlantan, I don’t want the world to think that 95% of the people in our metro area would be so stupid as to fire a gun in a populated area without criminal intent. It’s very sad this beautiful child is gone. What I DON’T understand is “did the mother really keep the child in the church and not call 911 immediately after he was struck?” I mean, does that sound stupid or what? Anyone who reads this - would you not get your child immediate attention after he was knocked unconscious? And the other thing is, she probably would have had that child sitting there too until 3 a.m. if he hadn’t been struck. I am very sorry for her loss, but sometimes tragedy happens when we don’t use the brains God gave us. May his soul rest in peace
As an Atlantan, I don’t want the world to think that 95% of the people in our metro area would be so stupid as to fire a gun in a populated area without criminal intent. It’s very sad this beautiful child is gone. What I DON’T understand is “did the mother really keep the child in the church and not call 911 immediately after he was struck?” I mean, does that sound stupid or what? Anyone who reads this - would you not get your child immediate attention after he was knocked unconscious? And the other thing is, she probably would have had that child sitting there too until 3 a.m. if he hadn’t been struck. I am very sorry for her loss, but sometimes tragedy happens when we don’t use the brains God gave us. May his soul rest in peace
Not to put words in his mouth, but I believe he's saying after the projectile has passed it's apex, it might regain some velocity because of gravity. This of course would be assuming a fairly significant launch angle.
But, you're right - as soon as it leaves the barrel, it begins to slow down at a predictable rate.
The story makes it sound like it’s a falling bullet but I suspect it came in at much less than perpendicular to be able to retain enough velocity to do the damage that it did. measure the angle from where it entered the roof and impacted would give a reasonable idea as to the angle.
I no longer investigate motives. Generally they are self promoting or to manipulate the public. You nor me could ever prove this story unless we have the absolute facts, which were lacking in the story, except that the child was killed from a bullet that penetranted the roof of a church...which was, to me a ‘red flag’. But unless we personally investigate...I suspect the actual ‘facts’ will never surface.
That is how I interpret the story as written. Kind of a Saddam rifle shot from the podium.
The science is fairly clear on bullets accelerating due to gravity. Terminal velocity is around 175 feet per second. A slow handgun bullet is 750 feet per second. Energy increases with the square of the velocity, and the bullet had to penetrate a roof before it hit the child.
The trouble with firing guns into the air is that the people who do it tend to be drunk and stupid. It would be harmless if they fired them straight up, but they fire them above objects in their line of sight, which is still at a fairly low, acute angle to the ground.
A mother and child were killed in Colorado a few years back because some idiot fired “into the air” which turned out to be right through a third floor window.
The inclusion of the roof is puzzling, unless the church had a very low roof and a bullet could pass throught the roof and then into the chapel on a fairly gentle arc.
That's how I interpreted it as well - clearly, that was the picture that the author tried to paint. I suspect the events were more nefarious - as in someone fired a gun, either intentionally at the church, or at another building, and not strait into the air, as one might envision with a term like "celebratory gun fire".
“it might regain some velocity because of gravity”
Not unless the bullet was thrown by hand, and slowly at that. I know what he was thinking, but that would only be true in a vacuum.
I’m guessing AK47 fired directly at the roof. Up to about 500 meters, perhaps a bit more, it might still have the velocity to penetrate a roof and deflect downward with enough force to kill. The AK bullet isn’t the fastest or most aerodynamic bullet, but it is quite common in the inner city.
“Hatcher’s Notebook” by General Hatcher, is a one of firearms Bibles. He talks of firing bullets straight up and having them fell back to Earth, base first.
There is nothing in the article that says the bullet trajactory was vertical. Yes, "roof" is "up" from a child sitting in a pew, but NOT straight up. That means absolutly nothing when we are discussing ballistics. A Sierra Match King rises several feet over the ground before coming back down and thru the target.
Ever heard of "Plunging Fires" and "Beaten Zones"? Don't you think you should tell the US Army about your vastly superior knowledge? They have been teaching machine gunners about this since 1900. Pity you weren't there to tell them they are wrong and that gunfire coming over a hill is entirely harmless...
You could be correct but they sure as heck don’t lead you this way in the story.
Me too. It doesn't pass the smell test.
The discussion was about bullets fired straight up (or close) coming back to earth with enough force to penetrate a roof and kill someone inside. It referenced Mythbusters who tested just that hypothesis. Clearly, the bullet was probably fired at the roof and was a deflection.
While I probably can’t teach the army much about ballistics, I can calculate muzzle velocities and joules of energy for different rounds.
Absurd ideas like the bullet increasing it’s velocity because of gravity need to be challenged.
It’s heartwarming that so many Freepers have taken the time to share their knowledge of ballistics on this thread. Could one of you please notify the boy’s family right away that this story is impossible?
RIP
In order to fire directly at a roof you would have to be above it. If there are buildings nearby that are taller than the church it shouldn't be difficult to determine where the shot came from.
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