Pagan Propaganda: The Other Attack on Christmas

American Thinker ^ | December 24, 2009 | Selwyn Duke

[Petronski]

There is no legitimate Christianity?

Anywhere?

[Petronski]

Do you profess to be a Christian?

[Zionist Conspirator]

So let me get this straight: Because I don’t buy into Replacement Theology therefore I am automatically anti-God, anti-American, anti-christian, anti-religion?

Yep. Chr*stianity is the religion of the "west," therefore all "westerners" are supposed to be chr*stians--and not just any kind of chr*stian, but the kind that has "created and sustained our civilization." Which is a very relativistic and utilitarian view of religion to take.

There's nothing in the "new testament" about celebrating 12/25. Meanwhile, the Hebrew Bible is full of holidays that supposedly "Bible-loving" chr*stians are wholly ignorant of.

I'll stand with the Bible.

[Uri’el-2012]

U-2012>Yah'shua is a Jew so is Peter, and all of the apostles including Paul.

And since they believe Jesus is Christ, they are all Christians...Catholic Saints and fathers of the Catholic Church.

Or do you reject the clear teaching of Paul in Romans ?

Of course not. I reject your contorted, excruciatingly bizarre personal interpretation of Scripture (or, that is, your redacted version of Scripture).

The word "followers of the Christ" is Gentile Greek.

The Jews who followed the Jewish Messiah became Messianic Jews.

You might want to ask the Ru'ach HaKodesh to illuminate Romans 11.

Very specifically: Romans 11 where Paul discusses who is grafted into whom.

NAsbU Romans 11:17 But if some of the branches were broken off,
and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them
and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree,


NAsbU Romans 11:19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off
so that I might be grafted in."

Paul warns against the pride of a Gentile follower of Yah'shua.

NAsbU Romans 11:22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God;
to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness,
if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.

NAsbU Romans 11:23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief,
will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

A Jew who comes to know the Jewish Messiah for their salvation
does not become a Christian,
They become a "called out one", a member of the Ekklesia.
They become a Messianic Jew.
The L-rd's name ( SHEM ) is not je-zeus;
it is Yah'shua ( YHvH is my salvation )


NAsbU Romans 10:13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."

Which is why you must call on His Name for salvation.
See Exod. 15:2; 2 Sam. 23:5; Job 19:25 Ps. 18:2; 19:14; 62:1, 7; 118:14 Isa. 12:2; Isa 49:6; Isa 54:8

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach

[Uri’el-2012]

Do you profess to be a Christian?

I follow the Jewish Messiah: Yah'shua

I call on His NAME for salvation : YHvH is my salvation !

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach

[brent13a]

Duke says at the beginning of his bigoted article: This less well-known attack could ultimately prove more damaging than the usual atheistic assaults. And it's embraced by religionists themselves.

So yes, his little whiney diatribe DOES include anyone under this moniker "christmasphobe". Whether they believe n Jesus the Son of G-d or not, to Duke it doesn't matter, you don't believe christmas is a legitimate biblical holiday then you are anti-christian, anti-god, anti-religion, and anti-american. In Dukes bigoted world that makes total sense.

[Petronski]

The L-rd's name ( SHEM ) is not je-zeus....

Oh good grief.

So you do not profess to be a Christian?

[Uri’el-2012]

One day you will come to know that membership
in any man made enterprise does not save.

Only when you seek salvation through repentance
by calling on the NAME: Yah'shua will your prayers be answered.

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach

[Uri’el-2012]

There is no legitimate Christianity?

Anywhere?

There will always be a remnant to follow and worship YHvH,
despite the persecution by the pagans.

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach

[Petronski]

One day you will come to know that membership in any man made enterprise does not save.

Congratulations, you agree with the Catholic Church (even though you're not Christian).

[brent13a]

"...even though you're not Christian

But does that make Uri’el-2012 ANTI-God, ANTI-Jesus, ANTI-american, ANTI-conservative and in league with atheists and progressive-liberals?

Because that is exactly what Duke is stating, rather emphatically.

Because a person may chose to call The Father and The Son by different names and chose to recognize different "holidays" makes them "non-christian" thereby means they are evil.......according to many including Duke.

There is no other way to take the article than in that way.

[oldenuff2no]

I lived in several different European countries while in the military. I had the opportunity to read several different slants on biblical history and they do differ.
First, I would rather live in this Christian nation above any other nation on the face of this earth.
I have family and family friends who vehemently object when I even discuss the things I have read elsewhere. If it does not fit their idea or Christianity then it can not be true or even talked about.
For instance. The puritans had a quarrel with the kings government in England. These God fearing folks had passed a bunch of local laws that were very strict according to their religion. They imposed these laws on all who passed through the area. Some of the punishment were severe. They representatives of the king paid them a visit and told them that there were laws of the land, made by the king that were to be used and not theirs. (This was nothing more than a small Cult making up their own laws) So these religious people left because they thought they were being persecuted. Our history books will tell you that these people then came to the new world to escape this persecution. Not what happened. First they went to Holland and had the same problem. In fact they were encouraged to leave in very strong language. They departed Holland in three ships, one of them in very bad condition. After departure they had to stop in England abandoning one vessel. They reshuffled the the remaining passengers and left about a third of them behind in the UK promising to return for them post haste. That never happened. Upon arrival in the new world these settlers had a ruff time but persisted and became established. The next notable event from this community was the Salem Witch Hunts. Most Christians in this nation claim their heritage through these poor persecuted religious souls paying no attention to real documented history and some of the things they did along the way. In the view of these narrow minded people their ancestors could have done no wrong so they just choose to ignore documented history from several different nations. In place of this document history they just make thing up. Our history books are full of their "persecution fairy tail."

[Paladins Prayer]

I don’t think Duke said anyone was evil. He simply said that the people who are attacking Christmas by saying it’s a pagan holiday are in league with the atheists and libtards who are attacking Christmas. Why? Because they’re both ATTACKING Christmas.

You have no right to try to destroy one of our major traditions. You should be ashamed of yourself and you should stop.

[Vanders9]

I’m not sure “bigoted” really applies here. A bigot is someone who refuses to change their opinions in the light of irrefutable evidence to the contrary, and as the author hasn’t had a chance to come back to your objections, I dont really see how you can assume he is bigoted (unless, of course, you have had prior dealings with him. Personally, Ive never heard of him before).

I honestly think you might be reading too much into this quote you give. The impression I get from it is that he is saying atheists are always having a go at Christians (hey what else is new) but on this particular point they are being aided (possibly unwittingly) by some of the religously minded (he doesnt specify whether they are RT or not incidentally) who tacitly accept the arguments that the atheists are presenting. I think he has a point there - I certainly was prepared to accept arguments that Christmas was originally a Pagan festival. It didnt matter to me, because I dont care what the pagans celebrated. I personally am celebrating the coming of the saviour. But, as he points out, does this “christmas was originally a pagan festival” theory actually hold any water? It could be another urban myth - you know, people say it so often that it kind of becomes true, because everybody thinks its true.

[Vanders9]

...and with the protestant churches too (well most of them anyway).

[Vanders9]

I think the point is that at the time stables WERE in caves.

[brent13a]

does this “christmas was originally a pagan festival” theory actually hold any water?

It does, because it's historical fact (read a little bit about Emperor Constantine and how he shaped christianity and paganism into his vision of a religion). No one is saying that there isn't also historical fact to validate the bible (except atheists) because there IS historical fact to validate the bible. But if one accepts the history of the bible (and the historical fact that validates it) then one cannot also then ignore other historical fact as if it is then invalidated by the bible. That is revisionism.
It's amazing that there would be lauded conservatives who on one hand will complain that progressive liberals & democrats love to ignore aspects of US history and chose to revise US history to their ends.....yet then these same conservatives turn around and chose to accept revisionist history when it comes to other things. It is quite hypocritical.
Just because there are aspects to a religion's past that may make one uncomfortable doesn't mean those things need to be automatically accepted and defended even if it means revising history.

[Petronski]

...read a little bit about Emperor Constantine and how he shaped christianity and paganism into his vision of a religion...

Or read something TRUE about St. Constantine the Great.

[Wpin]

If there was a pagan celebration on the 25th of December...I have not seen actual evidence of this anywhere...I know that there is a Pagan winter solstice celebration, but those ended before the 25th, if there was one though...that has absolutely nothing with the Celebration of Jesus’ birth.

Oftentimes, lay people become confused by coincidence rather than correlation. There is a difference and that difference is huge. Christianity does not come from paganism or any other religion other than sharing the old testament which includes the Jewish and Muslim. The Jews for the most part believe Jesus was a man, the Muslims understand that Jesus was a Prophet.

The bible is from God, and Jesus is from God, it is that simple. Nothing more nothing less.

Merry Christmas...btw, Santa Clause is not where Jesus comes from.

[stfassisi]

The bottom line here, as it is with all birthday celebrations, is not when Jesus was born. It is that He was born.

Very nice,dear friend.

Jesus usurps pagan holidays every day of the silly human calendar because He is God and existed before a single Pagan ever existed,thus a pagan owns nothing ,especially not a calender day